VS.NET 2005 vs. ReSharper

I was curious how JetBrains views the future of ReSharper when it seems
VS.NET 2005 will be duplicating many of ReSharper's current features. Is
anyone there running the tech previews to see what Microsoft is doing?
Don't get me wrong - I'm a ReSharper junkie and I need the features now, but
it's always good to look to the horizon... Comments?

Thanks,
Derek Price


28 comments
Comment actions Permalink

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in Whidbey but we
definitely are going to compete with it.

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


"Derek Price" <dprice@doble.com> wrote in message
news:c98qs0$sho$1@is.intellij.net...

I was curious how JetBrains views the future of ReSharper when it seems
VS.NET 2005 will be duplicating many of ReSharper's current features. Is
anyone there running the tech previews to see what Microsoft is doing?
Don't get me wrong - I'm a ReSharper junkie and I need the features now,

but

it's always good to look to the horizon... Comments?

>

Thanks,
Derek Price

>
>


0
Comment actions Permalink

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in Whidbey but we
definitely are going to compete with it.

In what way?

--
Andrey Simanovsky
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"



"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:c9i5km$clk$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in Whidbey but we
definitely are going to compete with it.

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

"Derek Price" <dprice@doble.com> wrote in message
news:c98qs0$sho$1@is.intellij.net...

I was curious how JetBrains views the future of ReSharper when it seems
VS.NET 2005 will be duplicating many of ReSharper's current features.

Is

anyone there running the tech previews to see what Microsoft is doing?
Don't get me wrong - I'm a ReSharper junkie and I need the features now,

but

it's always good to look to the horizon... Comments?

>

Thanks,
Derek Price

>
>

>
>


0
Comment actions Permalink

Yes - in what way? I know you never like to reveal your secrets to your
competitors, but some of the refactoring in VS.NET2005 looks very good.
ReSharper needs to be able to have all the duplicate functionality plus more
to compete. Refer to these links , for known functionality - I'm
sure there are better links, but these were the first ones I could find.

http://www.enterprisej2me.com/blog/ms/?postid=20

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dv_vstechart/html/whidbey_csharp_preview.asp

"Andrey Simanovsky (JetBrains)" <ands@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:c9i706$mae$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in Whidbey but we
definitely are going to compete with it.

In what way?

>

--
Andrey Simanovsky
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>
>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:c9i5km$clk$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in Whidbey but we
definitely are going to compete with it.

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"



0
Comment actions Permalink

Of course we need to have most of VS functionality plus more. (However I do
not think we need ALL the functionality of VS, do you use ALL VS features?)

As for Whidbey fuinctionality, I read something in the Internet and looked
at the previews. Of course, they move in the right direction but the current
implementation is too far from being usable IMO. Of course, they will get
much better in the release.

BTW what in particular looks very good in VS.NET2005? Just wondering what
people like...

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


"Derek Price" <dprice@doble.com> wrote in message
news:c9ifft$e4s$1@is.intellij.net...

Yes - in what way? I know you never like to reveal your secrets to your
competitors, but some of the refactoring in VS.NET2005 looks very good.
ReSharper needs to be able to have all the duplicate functionality plus

more

to compete. Refer to these links , for known functionality - I'm
sure there are better links, but these were the first ones I could find.

>

http://www.enterprisej2me.com/blog/ms/?postid=20

>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dv_vstechart/html/whidbey_csharp_preview.asp
>

"Andrey Simanovsky (JetBrains)" <ands@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:c9i706$mae$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in Whidbey but

we

definitely are going to compete with it.

In what way?

>

--
Andrey Simanovsky
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>
>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in

message

news:c9i5km$clk$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in Whidbey but

we

definitely are going to compete with it.

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>


0
Comment actions Permalink

Of course I don't use every feature of VS, but then again ReSharper
concentrates on a very specialized area of VS. I wouldn't expect RS to be a
full-fledged kernal mode debugger!

What looks good in VS?

  • I like that there are tooltips while filling in the templates ("Press TAB

to move to next field", etc.)

  • The "Preview Changes" option looks great. I could have used that

yesterday when I renamed a variable and didn't realize everything it would
change.

  • I like the "Change Tracking" feature as well. You could possibly combine

this with the Errors Gutter (which is an excellent feature).

I have not installed VS2005 since I don't have the time or the extra pc to
do it, but from the screenshots alone, they're going to give you a run for
your money. So based on the screenshots alone, they have duplicated quite a
bit of what RS does now. What will RS offer in addition when VS finally
releases? I must re-state that I'm hooked on RS and feel very loyal to it.
It's here now and not a promise for 2005. It's amazing what you've
accomplished in such a short time. But the general masses that haven't used
RS will need some compelling reasons beyond loyalty to dish out a $100 (or
whatever the final price will be).

Thanks,
Derek "The Other Derek" Price

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:c9kad5$g7q$1@is.intellij.net...

Of course we need to have most of VS functionality plus more. (However I

do

not think we need ALL the functionality of VS, do you use ALL VS

features?)
>

As for Whidbey fuinctionality, I read something in the Internet and looked
at the previews. Of course, they move in the right direction but the

current

implementation is too far from being usable IMO. Of course, they will get
much better in the release.

>

BTW what in particular looks very good in VS.NET2005? Just wondering what
people like...

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

"Derek Price" <dprice@doble.com> wrote in message
news:c9ifft$e4s$1@is.intellij.net...

Yes - in what way? I know you never like to reveal your secrets to your
competitors, but some of the refactoring in VS.NET2005 looks very good.
ReSharper needs to be able to have all the duplicate functionality plus

more

to compete. Refer to these links , for known functionality - I'm
sure there are better links, but these were the first ones I could find.

>

http://www.enterprisej2me.com/blog/ms/?postid=20

>

>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dv_vstechart/html/whidbey_csharp_preview.asp

>

"Andrey Simanovsky (JetBrains)" <ands@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:c9i706$mae$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in Whidbey

but

we

definitely are going to compete with it.

In what way?

>

--
Andrey Simanovsky
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>
>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in

message

news:c9i5km$clk$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in Whidbey

but

we

definitely are going to compete with it.

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

>
>


0
Comment actions Permalink

It's here now and not a promise for 2005. It's amazing what you've
accomplished in such a short time. But the general masses that haven't

used

RS will need some compelling reasons beyond loyalty to dish out a $100 (or
whatever the final price will be).


Who said we were going to continue as an add-in to VS?

  • I like that there are tooltips while filling in the templates ("Press

TAB

to move to next field", etc.)


Yes, I thought about that. But it probably makes sense only when you do not
know how to use the templates yet. I was thinking about showing it only the
first time. What do you think?

  • The "Preview Changes" option looks great. I could have used that

yesterday when I renamed a variable and didn't realize everything it would
change.


Hmm... Could not catch the idea, what could the rename change that needed
the preview?

  • I like the "Change Tracking" feature as well. You could possibly

combine

this with the Errors Gutter (which is an excellent feature).


Yes, of course it's useful. We had it in IDEA for ages :-).

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"



"Derek Price" <dprice@doble.com> wrote in message
news:c9kn9i$dgf$1@is.intellij.net...

Of course I don't use every feature of VS, but then again ReSharper
concentrates on a very specialized area of VS. I wouldn't expect RS to be

a

full-fledged kernal mode debugger!

>

What looks good in VS?

  • I like that there are tooltips while filling in the templates ("Press

TAB

to move to next field", etc.)

  • The "Preview Changes" option looks great. I could have used that

yesterday when I renamed a variable and didn't realize everything it would
change.

  • I like the "Change Tracking" feature as well. You could possibly

combine

this with the Errors Gutter (which is an excellent feature).

>

I have not installed VS2005 since I don't have the time or the extra pc to
do it, but from the screenshots alone, they're going to give you a run for
your money. So based on the screenshots alone, they have duplicated quite

a

bit of what RS does now. What will RS offer in addition when VS finally
releases? I must re-state that I'm hooked on RS and feel very loyal to

it.

It's here now and not a promise for 2005. It's amazing what you've
accomplished in such a short time. But the general masses that haven't

used

RS will need some compelling reasons beyond loyalty to dish out a $100 (or
whatever the final price will be).

>

Thanks,
Derek "The Other Derek" Price

>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:c9kad5$g7q$1@is.intellij.net...

Of course we need to have most of VS functionality plus more. (However I

do

not think we need ALL the functionality of VS, do you use ALL VS

features?)
>

As for Whidbey fuinctionality, I read something in the Internet and

looked

at the previews. Of course, they move in the right direction but the

current

implementation is too far from being usable IMO. Of course, they will

get

much better in the release.

>

BTW what in particular looks very good in VS.NET2005? Just wondering

what

people like...

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

"Derek Price" <dprice@doble.com> wrote in message
news:c9ifft$e4s$1@is.intellij.net...

Yes - in what way? I know you never like to reveal your secrets to

your

competitors, but some of the refactoring in VS.NET2005 looks very

good.

ReSharper needs to be able to have all the duplicate functionality

plus

more

to compete. Refer to these links , for known functionality -

I'm

sure there are better links, but these were the first ones I could

find.

>

http://www.enterprisej2me.com/blog/ms/?postid=20

>

>

>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dv_vstechart/html/whidbey_csharp_preview.asp

>

"Andrey Simanovsky (JetBrains)" <ands@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:c9i706$mae$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in Whidbey

but

we

definitely are going to compete with it.

In what way?

>

--
Andrey Simanovsky
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>
>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in

message

news:c9i5km$clk$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in Whidbey

but

we

definitely are going to compete with it.

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

>
>

>
>


0
Comment actions Permalink

Who said we were going to continue as an add-in to VS?


Ambitious aren't you?! You just opened a can of worms. First off - when's
the EAP? ;) Are you going to be primarily an editor or are you integrating
everything (debugger, etc.) like VS does? Are you basically porting IDEA to
.NET?

  • I like that there are tooltips while filling in the templates ("Press

TAB to move to next field", etc.)

>

Yes, I thought about that. But it probably makes sense only when you do

not

know how to use the templates yet. I was thinking about showing it only

the

first time. What do you think?


I'm not sure about the first time only. What if you don't use a particular
template for quite a while? You might forget the details (I know it's not
too difficult to figure it out). Bottom line - stick it in a build and
let's try it out!

  • The "Preview Changes" option looks great. I could have used that

yesterday when I renamed a variable and didn't realize everything it

would

change.

>

Hmm... Could not catch the idea, what could the rename change that needed
the preview?


It was more of a cut and paste problem while developing and before
compiling...

  • I like the "Change Tracking" feature as well. You could possibly

combine

this with the Errors Gutter (which is an excellent feature).

>

Yes, of course it's useful. We had it in IDEA for ages :).


Sorry - I haven't had the pleasure of using IDEA. I just saw that IDEA was
a runner up in the IDE category, but I can't remember who beat you. It was
a special issue put out by one of the dev magazines I get. I just reviewed
your IDEA web site and if you plan to integrate all these features, then
you'll be on par with MS. Although there should be integration with FxCop,
NUnit, VSS, maybe NDoc, etc. How about compatibility with existing add-ins
(like... hmm... ReSharper?)? There are some really great add-ins already
and would be a shame if you couldn't take advantage of them. Just out of
curiosity, do you really think that you'll be able to compete in the IDE
category with MS?

http://www.jetbrains.com/idea/features/



0
Comment actions Permalink

Ambitious aren't you?! You just opened a can of worms. First off -

when's

the EAP? ;) Are you going to be primarily an editor or are you

integrating

everything (debugger, etc.) like VS does? Are you basically porting IDEA

to

.NET?


We are going to integrate everything (debugger, etc). Basically like IDEA
but, of course, we plan to go ahead!

I'm not sure about the first time only. What if you don't use a

particular

template for quite a while? You might forget the details (I know it's not
too difficult to figure it out). Bottom line - stick it in a build and
let's try it out!


I thought you said about "Press Tab..." tooltip only. It's only useful to
users which do not know that Tab jumps to the next template field. Did you
mean some other tooltips?

Although there should be integration with FxCop,
NUnit, VSS, maybe NDoc, etc.


We'll integrate with NUnit and VSS in anycase.
I'm not sure about NDoc. What kind of integration you need?
I didn't know what "FxCop" was but I looked into the google and it seemed to
be a code analisys tool. Is it THAT wide spread? (In anycase it's not a big
deal to integrate with such kind of stuff.)

How about compatibility with existing add-ins
(like... hmm... ReSharper?)? There are some really great add-ins already
and would be a shame if you couldn't take advantage of them.


I don't think we can support add-ins for VS but we'll provide our own API
for add-ins and I'm sure many addin's authors will provide a version for our
IDE.

Just out of
curiosity, do you really think that you'll be able to compete in the IDE
category with MS?


We are not going to take a very significant market share (50% for example
:)) but I'm sure we'll take some piece.
IDE's is not Microsoft's primary business, they just sell the technologies
and they need to have an IDE that supports them. It's not a real competition
between us and MS because they should be interested in tools like ours, they
make .NET platform more attractive for developers.

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


"Derek Price" <dprice@doble.com> wrote in message
news:c9ks8j$i4t$1@is.intellij.net...

Who said we were going to continue as an add-in to VS?

>

Ambitious aren't you?! You just opened a can of worms. First off -

when's

the EAP? ;) Are you going to be primarily an editor or are you

integrating

everything (debugger, etc.) like VS does? Are you basically porting IDEA

to

.NET?

>

  • I like that there are tooltips while filling in the templates

("Press

TAB to move to next field", etc.)

>

Yes, I thought about that. But it probably makes sense only when you do

not

know how to use the templates yet. I was thinking about showing it only

the

first time. What do you think?

>

I'm not sure about the first time only. What if you don't use a

particular

template for quite a while? You might forget the details (I know it's not
too difficult to figure it out). Bottom line - stick it in a build and
let's try it out!

>

  • The "Preview Changes" option looks great. I could have used that

yesterday when I renamed a variable and didn't realize everything it

would

change.

>

Hmm... Could not catch the idea, what could the rename change that

needed

the preview?

>

It was more of a cut and paste problem while developing and before
compiling...

>

  • I like the "Change Tracking" feature as well. You could possibly

combine

this with the Errors Gutter (which is an excellent feature).

>

Yes, of course it's useful. We had it in IDEA for ages :).

>

Sorry - I haven't had the pleasure of using IDEA. I just saw that IDEA

was

a runner up in the IDE category, but I can't remember who beat you. It

was

a special issue put out by one of the dev magazines I get. I just

reviewed

your IDEA web site and if you plan to integrate all these features,

then

you'll be on par with MS. Although there should be integration with

FxCop,

NUnit, VSS, maybe NDoc, etc. How about compatibility with existing

add-ins

(like... hmm... ReSharper?)? There are some really great add-ins already
and would be a shame if you couldn't take advantage of them. Just out of
curiosity, do you really think that you'll be able to compete in the IDE
category with MS?

>

http://www.jetbrains.com/idea/features/

>
>


0
Comment actions Permalink

Valentin, what do you mean "far from being usable"?

Obviously it's a Alpha Version, and so you can expect some crashes, but on
the performance side, for instance, intelisense and coloring is a lot faster
on VS2005 than it is on R# is at the moment.
If you only take into consideration the code editor, most of the time
usability of VS2005 is on par or better than on VS2003.
(As a side note, R# is getting there, and it's the only thing that makes
going VS2003 bearable .)

Like many here I'm in love with R# ( where have you been the last 4
years? ), but don't be mistaken, the current feature set of R# doesn't seem
a good a match for VS2005.

But then again, R# is now ( or almost now), and VS2005 is at least 1 year
from now...

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:c9kad5$g7q$1@is.intellij.net...

Of course we need to have most of VS functionality plus more. (However I

do

not think we need ALL the functionality of VS, do you use ALL VS

features?)
>

As for Whidbey fuinctionality, I read something in the Internet and looked
at the previews. Of course, they move in the right direction but the

current

implementation is too far from being usable IMO. Of course, they will get
much better in the release.

>

BTW what in particular looks very good in VS.NET2005? Just wondering what
people like...

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

"Derek Price" <dprice@doble.com> wrote in message
news:c9ifft$e4s$1@is.intellij.net...

Yes - in what way? I know you never like to reveal your secrets to your
competitors, but some of the refactoring in VS.NET2005 looks very good.
ReSharper needs to be able to have all the duplicate functionality plus

more

to compete. Refer to these links , for known functionality - I'm
sure there are better links, but these were the first ones I could find.

>

http://www.enterprisej2me.com/blog/ms/?postid=20

>

>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dv_vstechart/html/whidbey_csharp_preview.asp

>

"Andrey Simanovsky (JetBrains)" <ands@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:c9i706$mae$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in Whidbey

but

we

definitely are going to compete with it.

In what way?

>

--
Andrey Simanovsky
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>
>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in

message

news:c9i5km$clk$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in Whidbey

but

we

definitely are going to compete with it.

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

>
>


0
Comment actions Permalink

Valentin, what do you mean "far from being usable"?


Many of the features did not worked properly when I tried it. There was
multiple usablity flaws and I thought it was difficult to use it for any
production work. I didn't try though. Just my opinion.

Obviously it's a Alpha Version, and so you can expect some crashes,
but on the performance side, for instance, intelisense and coloring is
a lot faster on VS2005 than it is on R# is at the moment. If you only
take into consideration the code editor, > most of the time usability
of VS2005 is on par or better than on VS2003. If it weren't for R# I
would go nuts going back to VS2003 to do any work.


Of course, it's an Alpha Version (as well as ReSharper).
I did not understand, did you prefer to use VS2005 or VS2003 + R# for
production work?

Like many here I'm in love with R# ( where have you been the last 4
years? ), but don't be mistaken, the current feature set of R# doesn't
seem a good a match for VS2005.


What do you mean? It's hard to compare an IDE and a add-in. What is missing
in the current R#?

But then again, R# is now ( or almost now), and VS2005 is at least 1
year from now...


Of course. We are not going to take the rest for this year :-).

Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

"Joao Paulo Carreiro" <anonymous@anonymous.com> wrote in message
news:c9l17u$qsm$1@is.intellij.net...

Valentin, what do you mean "far from being usable"?

>

Obviously it's a Alpha Version, and so you can expect some crashes, but on
the performance side, for instance, intelisense and coloring is a lot

faster

on VS2005 than it is on R# is at the moment.
If you only take into consideration the code editor, most of the time
usability of VS2005 is on par or better than on VS2003.
(As a side note, R# is getting there, and it's the only thing that makes
going VS2003 bearable .)

>

Like many here I'm in love with R# ( where have you been the last 4
years? ), but don't be mistaken, the current feature set of R# doesn't

seem

a good a match for VS2005.

>

But then again, R# is now ( or almost now), and VS2005 is at least 1 year
from now...

>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:c9kad5$g7q$1@is.intellij.net...

Of course we need to have most of VS functionality plus more. (However I

do

not think we need ALL the functionality of VS, do you use ALL VS

features?)
>

As for Whidbey fuinctionality, I read something in the Internet and

looked

at the previews. Of course, they move in the right direction but the

current

implementation is too far from being usable IMO. Of course, they will

get

much better in the release.

>

BTW what in particular looks very good in VS.NET2005? Just wondering

what

people like...

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

"Derek Price" <dprice@doble.com> wrote in message
news:c9ifft$e4s$1@is.intellij.net...

Yes - in what way? I know you never like to reveal your secrets to

your

competitors, but some of the refactoring in VS.NET2005 looks very

good.

ReSharper needs to be able to have all the duplicate functionality

plus

more

to compete. Refer to these links , for known functionality -

I'm

sure there are better links, but these were the first ones I could

find.

>

http://www.enterprisej2me.com/blog/ms/?postid=20

>

>

>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dv_vstechart/html/whidbey_csharp_preview.asp

>

"Andrey Simanovsky (JetBrains)" <ands@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:c9i706$mae$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in Whidbey

but

we

definitely are going to compete with it.

In what way?

>

--
Andrey Simanovsky
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>
>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in

message

news:c9i5km$clk$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in Whidbey

but

we

definitely are going to compete with it.

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

>
>

>
>


0
Comment actions Permalink

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:c9l00n$dj0$1@is.intellij.net...

We are going to integrate everything (debugger, etc). Basically like IDEA
but, of course, we plan to go ahead!


Just let me know when the EAP is!

I thought you said about "Press Tab..." tooltip only. It's only useful to
users which do not know that Tab jumps to the next template field. Did you
mean some other tooltips?


In one of those earlier links , I think the msdn one, it showed
different tooltips during template expansion. That's what I was referring
to.
http://www.enterprisej2me.com/blog/ms/?postid=20

We'll integrate with NUnit and VSS in anycase.
I'm not sure about NDoc. What kind of integration you need?
I didn't know what "FxCop" was but I looked into the google and it seemed

to

be a code analisys tool. Is it THAT wide spread? (In anycase it's not a

big

deal to integrate with such kind of stuff.)


I'm not currently using NDoc, but it seems to be a very popular
documentation tool. FxCop is used by Microsoft for all their .NET
development. All check-ins must pass FxCop before being checked in and I
think it's run during every build. It will also be integrated/part of the
VS2005 Team System
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/teamsystem/default.aspx



0
Comment actions Permalink

Just let me know when the EAP is!


Of course, you will be the first :-).

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


"Derek Price" <dprice@doble.com> wrote in message
news:c9l2bv$1g2$1@is.intellij.net...

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:c9l00n$dj0$1@is.intellij.net...

We are going to integrate everything (debugger, etc). Basically like

IDEA

but, of course, we plan to go ahead!

>

Just let me know when the EAP is!

>

I thought you said about "Press Tab..." tooltip only. It's only useful

to

users which do not know that Tab jumps to the next template field. Did

you

mean some other tooltips?

>

In one of those earlier links , I think the msdn one, it showed
different tooltips during template expansion. That's what I was referring
to.
http://www.enterprisej2me.com/blog/ms/?postid=20

>

We'll integrate with NUnit and VSS in anycase.
I'm not sure about NDoc. What kind of integration you need?
I didn't know what "FxCop" was but I looked into the google and it

seemed

to

be a code analisys tool. Is it THAT wide spread? (In anycase it's not a

big

deal to integrate with such kind of stuff.)

>

I'm not currently using NDoc, but it seems to be a very popular
documentation tool. FxCop is used by Microsoft for all their .NET
development. All check-ins must pass FxCop before being checked in and I
think it's run during every build. It will also be integrated/part of the
VS2005 Team System
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/teamsystem/default.aspx

>
>
>


0
Comment actions Permalink

I get to be second!!!!'

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:c9l3rt$ahh$1@is.intellij.net...
>> Just let me know when the EAP is
>

Of course, you will be the first :).

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

"Derek Price" <dprice@doble.com> wrote in message
news:c9l2bv$1g2$1@is.intellij.net...

>> "Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in message
>> news:c9l00n$dj0$1@is.intellij.net...
>> > We are going to integrate everything (debugger, etc). Basically like

IDEA

>> > but, of course, we plan to go ahead!
>>
>> Just let me know when the EAP is!
>>
>> > I thought you said about "Press Tab..." tooltip only. It's only useful

to

>> > users which do not know that Tab jumps to the next template field. Did

you

>> > mean some other tooltips?
>>
>> In one of those earlier links , I think the msdn one, it showed
>> different tooltips during template expansion. That's what I was
>> referring
>> to.
>> http://www.enterprisej2me.com/blog/ms/?postid=20
>>
>> > We'll integrate with NUnit and VSS in anycase.
>> > I'm not sure about NDoc. What kind of integration you need?
>> > I didn't know what "FxCop" was but I looked into the google and it

seemed

>> to
>> > be a code analisys tool. Is it THAT wide spread? (In anycase it's not a
>> big
>> > deal to integrate with such kind of stuff.)
>>
>> I'm not currently using NDoc, but it seems to be a very popular
>> documentation tool. FxCop is used by Microsoft for all their .NET
>> development. All check-ins must pass FxCop before being checked in and I
>> think it's run during every build. It will also be integrated/part of
>> the
>> VS2005 Team System
>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/teamsystem/default.aspx
>>
>>
>>
>



0
Comment actions Permalink

Of course, it's an Alpha Version (as well as ReSharper).
I did not understand, did you prefer to use VS2005 or VS2003 + R# for
production work?


You can't use VS2005 for production work ( the EULA doesn't allow it).
But if I could, I would prefer VS2005 vs VS2003 & R#, because the
intelisense, coloring and refactoring are a lost faster in VS2005 than they
are on VS2003 & R#

What do you mean? It's hard to compare an IDE and a add-in. What is
missing in the current R#?

I'm only comparing the features that you seem to be aiming at. And I'm
taking into consideration that if you want R# then you'll have VS, so any
feature that VS has, is a feature that R# should do better and at least as
fast.
- Code completion - R# wins here on features, but the speed is still
lacking. The diference is imediate response from VS vs a noticiable lag (
less than a second, granted) from R# sometimes.
- Refactoring - There's more refactorings on VS at the moment.
- Coloring - VS has got about the same features ( minus the coloring of
methods), but does it a lot faster. When I open a big file (2000 lines) in
R#, it sometimes take more than 10 seconds for the colors to show.
- Templates - About the same feature set and speed.


Obviuslly you do have some features that VS doesn't have like:
- Code Analysis - It makes me feel like I'm using VB.NET's background
compiler, and thats a GREAT thing.
- Code navigation - VS2005 goto definition is much improved ( it doesn't
simply go to the first overload that if finds, it shows a list of
overloads), but R#s is done as it should, ie, it looks at the types you're
using on the method and goes to the correct overload EVERY TIME. I've even
mapped my F12 key to it :)


Cheers,
Paulo


"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:c9l20l$v12$1@is.intellij.net...

Valentin, what do you mean "far from being usable"?

>

Many of the features did not worked properly when I tried it. There was
multiple usablity flaws and I thought it was difficult to use it for any
production work. I didn't try though. Just my opinion.

>

Obviously it's a Alpha Version, and so you can expect some crashes,
but on the performance side, for instance, intelisense and coloring is
a lot faster on VS2005 than it is on R# is at the moment. If you only
take into consideration the code editor, > most of the time usability
of VS2005 is on par or better than on VS2003. If it weren't for R# I
would go nuts going back to VS2003 to do any work.

>

Of course, it's an Alpha Version (as well as ReSharper).
I did not understand, did you prefer to use VS2005 or VS2003 + R# for
production work?

>
>

Like many here I'm in love with R# ( where have you been the last 4
years? ), but don't be mistaken, the current feature set of R# doesn't
seem a good a match for VS2005.

>

What do you mean? It's hard to compare an IDE and a add-in. What is

missing

in the current R#?

>

But then again, R# is now ( or almost now), and VS2005 is at least 1
year from now...

>

Of course. We are not going to take the rest for this year :).

>

Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>

"Joao Paulo Carreiro" <anonymous@anonymous.com> wrote in message
news:c9l17u$qsm$1@is.intellij.net...

Valentin, what do you mean "far from being usable"?

>

Obviously it's a Alpha Version, and so you can expect some crashes, but

on

the performance side, for instance, intelisense and coloring is a lot

faster

on VS2005 than it is on R# is at the moment.
If you only take into consideration the code editor, most of the time
usability of VS2005 is on par or better than on VS2003.
(As a side note, R# is getting there, and it's the only thing that makes
going VS2003 bearable .)

>

Like many here I'm in love with R# ( where have you been the last 4
years? ), but don't be mistaken, the current feature set of R# doesn't

seem

a good a match for VS2005.

>

But then again, R# is now ( or almost now), and VS2005 is at least 1

year

from now...

>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in

message

news:c9kad5$g7q$1@is.intellij.net...

Of course we need to have most of VS functionality plus more. (However

I

do

not think we need ALL the functionality of VS, do you use ALL VS

features?)
>

As for Whidbey fuinctionality, I read something in the Internet and

looked

at the previews. Of course, they move in the right direction but the

current

implementation is too far from being usable IMO. Of course, they will

get

much better in the release.

>

BTW what in particular looks very good in VS.NET2005? Just wondering

what

people like...

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

"Derek Price" <dprice@doble.com> wrote in message
news:c9ifft$e4s$1@is.intellij.net...

Yes - in what way? I know you never like to reveal your secrets to

your

competitors, but some of the refactoring in VS.NET2005 looks very

good.

ReSharper needs to be able to have all the duplicate functionality

plus

more

to compete. Refer to these links , for known functionality -

I'm

sure there are better links, but these were the first ones I could

find.

>

http://www.enterprisej2me.com/blog/ms/?postid=20

>

>

>

>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dv_vstechart/html/whidbey_csharp_preview.asp

>

"Andrey Simanovsky (JetBrains)" <ands@jetbrains.com> wrote in

message

news:c9i706$mae$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in

Whidbey

but

we

definitely are going to compete with it.

In what way?

>

--
Andrey Simanovsky
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>
>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in

message

news:c9i5km$clk$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in

Whidbey

but

we

definitely are going to compete with it.

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

>
>

>
>

>
>



0
Comment actions Permalink

- Code completion - R# wins here on features, but the speed is still
lacking. The diference is imediate response from VS vs a noticiable lag (
less than a second, granted) from R# sometimes.


I could not reproduce the delay. Are there any particular details that may
help us to reproduce it? How big the files are, how long the list is? Do
other guys here notice any delays?

- Refactoring - There's more refactorings on VS at the moment.


I carefully checked that and here are the results.

On VS side:
- Encapsulate Field
- Extract Interface

On our side:
- Move Type
- Introduce Variable
- Plus we are going to have 4-6 additional refactorings in the release

(Honestly, I see no big advantage of having Encapsulate Field refactoring in
C#. Just rename the field so its name starts uppercase, then change its name
back and generate the property. That's all.)

- Coloring - VS has got about the same features ( minus the coloring of
methods), but does it a lot faster. When I open a big file (2000 lines)

in

R#, it sometimes take more than 10 seconds for the colors to show.


In fact they color only type names (am I wrong?). It needs a very simple
analisys to do that.
Anyway we are going to fix the speed of the coloring soon.

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

"Joao Paulo Carreiro" <anonymous@anonymous.com> wrote in message
news:c9pjkr$aqd$1@is.intellij.net...

Of course, it's an Alpha Version (as well as ReSharper).
I did not understand, did you prefer to use VS2005 or VS2003 + R# for
production work?

>

You can't use VS2005 for production work ( the EULA doesn't allow it).
But if I could, I would prefer VS2005 vs VS2003 & R#, because the
intelisense, coloring and refactoring are a lost faster in VS2005 than

they

are on VS2003 & R#

>
>

What do you mean? It's hard to compare an IDE and a add-in. What is
missing in the current R#?

I'm only comparing the features that you seem to be aiming at. And I'm
taking into consideration that if you want R# then you'll have VS, so any
feature that VS has, is a feature that R# should do better and at least as
fast.
- Code completion - R# wins here on features, but the speed is still
lacking. The diference is imediate response from VS vs a noticiable lag (
less than a second, granted) from R# sometimes.
- Refactoring - There's more refactorings on VS at the moment.
- Coloring - VS has got about the same features ( minus the coloring of
methods), but does it a lot faster. When I open a big file (2000 lines)

in

R#, it sometimes take more than 10 seconds for the colors to show.
- Templates - About the same feature set and speed.

>
>

Obviuslly you do have some features that VS doesn't have like:
- Code Analysis - It makes me feel like I'm using VB.NET's background
compiler, and thats a GREAT thing.
- Code navigation - VS2005 goto definition is much improved ( it doesn't
simply go to the first overload that if finds, it shows a list of
overloads), but R#s is done as it should, ie, it looks at the types you're
using on the method and goes to the correct overload EVERY TIME. I've even
mapped my F12 key to it :)

>
>

Cheers,
Paulo

>
>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:c9l20l$v12$1@is.intellij.net...

Valentin, what do you mean "far from being usable"?

>

Many of the features did not worked properly when I tried it. There was
multiple usablity flaws and I thought it was difficult to use it for any
production work. I didn't try though. Just my opinion.

>

Obviously it's a Alpha Version, and so you can expect some crashes,
but on the performance side, for instance, intelisense and coloring is
a lot faster on VS2005 than it is on R# is at the moment. If you only
take into consideration the code editor, > most of the time usability
of VS2005 is on par or better than on VS2003. If it weren't for R# I
would go nuts going back to VS2003 to do any work.

>

Of course, it's an Alpha Version (as well as ReSharper).
I did not understand, did you prefer to use VS2005 or VS2003 + R# for
production work?

>
>

Like many here I'm in love with R# ( where have you been the last 4
years? ), but don't be mistaken, the current feature set of R# doesn't
seem a good a match for VS2005.

>

What do you mean? It's hard to compare an IDE and a add-in. What is

missing

in the current R#?

>

But then again, R# is now ( or almost now), and VS2005 is at least 1
year from now...

>

Of course. We are not going to take the rest for this year :).

>

Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>

"Joao Paulo Carreiro" <anonymous@anonymous.com> wrote in message
news:c9l17u$qsm$1@is.intellij.net...

Valentin, what do you mean "far from being usable"?

>

Obviously it's a Alpha Version, and so you can expect some crashes,

but

on

the performance side, for instance, intelisense and coloring is a lot

faster

on VS2005 than it is on R# is at the moment.
If you only take into consideration the code editor, most of the time
usability of VS2005 is on par or better than on VS2003.
(As a side note, R# is getting there, and it's the only thing that

makes

going VS2003 bearable .)

>

Like many here I'm in love with R# ( where have you been the last 4
years? ), but don't be mistaken, the current feature set of R# doesn't

seem

a good a match for VS2005.

>

But then again, R# is now ( or almost now), and VS2005 is at least 1

year

from now...

>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in

message

news:c9kad5$g7q$1@is.intellij.net...

Of course we need to have most of VS functionality plus more.

(However

I

do

not think we need ALL the functionality of VS, do you use ALL VS

features?)
>

As for Whidbey fuinctionality, I read something in the Internet and

looked

at the previews. Of course, they move in the right direction but the

current

implementation is too far from being usable IMO. Of course, they

will

get

much better in the release.

>

BTW what in particular looks very good in VS.NET2005? Just wondering

what

people like...

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

"Derek Price" <dprice@doble.com> wrote in message
news:c9ifft$e4s$1@is.intellij.net...

Yes - in what way? I know you never like to reveal your secrets

to

your

competitors, but some of the refactoring in VS.NET2005 looks very

good.

ReSharper needs to be able to have all the duplicate functionality

plus

more

to compete. Refer to these links , for known

functionality -

I'm

sure there are better links, but these were the first ones I could

find.

>

http://www.enterprisej2me.com/blog/ms/?postid=20

>

>

>

>

>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dv_vstechart/html/whidbey_csharp_preview.asp

>

"Andrey Simanovsky (JetBrains)" <ands@jetbrains.com> wrote in

message

news:c9i706$mae$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in

Whidbey

but

we

definitely are going to compete with it.

In what way?

>

--
Andrey Simanovsky
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>
>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote

in

message

news:c9i5km$clk$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in

Whidbey

but

we

definitely are going to compete with it.

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

>
>

>
>

>
>

>
>
>


0
Comment actions Permalink

I could not reproduce the delay. Are there any particular details that may
help us to reproduce it? How big the files are, how long the list is? Do
other guys here notice any delays?


Ok... That's not fair, I was talking about .83 and you guys release .84
where you've improved the performance tremendously. ;)
Sometimes I see a 3 seconds delay on the first intelisense use of a file (
even on a file with 30 lines of code), but that might just be my HD catching
up, because if I close the file and try again it doesn't happen.

I carefully checked that and here are the results.

>

On VS side:
- Encapsulate Field
- Extract Interface

How about the Promote Local Variable to Parameter?

>

On our side:
- Move Type --

Never really needed to use it, but I can see it can be needed.

- Introduce Variable

Love it.

- Plus we are going to have 4-6 additional refactorings in the release

Can you share the list of new refactorings?

(Honestly, I see no big advantage of having Encapsulate Field refactoring

in

C#. Just rename the field so its name starts uppercase, then change its

name

back and generate the property. That's all.)

I use that refactoring a lot of times ( on C# Refactory) on "legacy" code.
Yes, it's simple to do with a Rename refactoring, and then some tweeking,
but on that case it should be quite easy for you to implement it, no?

R#, it sometimes take more than 10 seconds for the colors to show.

>
That was ver .83 - On ver .84 by the time VS2003 opens the file (500 lines)
and displays it the colorings are done, and on files with 2000 lines it
takes 1 second. That's fantastic, but not instantaneous. ( P4 2 GHZ, 1GB
RAM)

In fact they color only type names (am I wrong?). It needs a very simple
analisys to do that.

You're right. They only color User Types( Enums, Classes, Delegates,
Interfaces, Value Types ), and I personally don't see the value of member
coloring. If that's a big performance eater and it's not used on other
places ( like code analysis) , can we turn it off?

Anyway we are going to fix the speed of the coloring soon.

You already did most of it ;)

Cheers,
Paulo


"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:c9plrt$19v$1@is.intellij.net...

- Code completion - R# wins here on features, but the speed is still
lacking. The diference is imediate response from VS vs a noticiable lag

(

less than a second, granted) from R# sometimes.

>

I could not reproduce the delay. Are there any particular details that may
help us to reproduce it? How big the files are, how long the list is? Do
other guys here notice any delays?

>

- Refactoring - There's more refactorings on VS at the moment.

>

I carefully checked that and here are the results.

>

On VS side:
- Encapsulate Field
- Extract Interface

>

On our side:
- Move Type
- Introduce Variable
- Plus we are going to have 4-6 additional refactorings in the release

>

(Honestly, I see no big advantage of having Encapsulate Field refactoring

in

C#. Just rename the field so its name starts uppercase, then change its

name

back and generate the property. That's all.)

>

- Coloring - VS has got about the same features ( minus the coloring of
methods), but does it a lot faster. When I open a big file (2000 lines)

in

R#, it sometimes take more than 10 seconds for the colors to show.

>

In fact they color only type names (am I wrong?). It needs a very simple
analisys to do that.
Anyway we are going to fix the speed of the coloring soon.

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>

"Joao Paulo Carreiro" <anonymous@anonymous.com> wrote in message
news:c9pjkr$aqd$1@is.intellij.net...

Of course, it's an Alpha Version (as well as ReSharper).
I did not understand, did you prefer to use VS2005 or VS2003 + R# for
production work?

>

You can't use VS2005 for production work ( the EULA doesn't allow it).
But if I could, I would prefer VS2005 vs VS2003 & R#, because the
intelisense, coloring and refactoring are a lost faster in VS2005 than

they

are on VS2003 & R#

>
>

What do you mean? It's hard to compare an IDE and a add-in. What is
missing in the current R#?

I'm only comparing the features that you seem to be aiming at. And I'm
taking into consideration that if you want R# then you'll have VS, so

any

feature that VS has, is a feature that R# should do better and at least

as

fast.
- Code completion - R# wins here on features, but the speed is still
lacking. The diference is imediate response from VS vs a noticiable lag

(

less than a second, granted) from R# sometimes.
- Refactoring - There's more refactorings on VS at the moment.
- Coloring - VS has got about the same features ( minus the coloring of
methods), but does it a lot faster. When I open a big file (2000 lines)

in

R#, it sometimes take more than 10 seconds for the colors to show.
- Templates - About the same feature set and speed.

>
>

Obviuslly you do have some features that VS doesn't have like:
- Code Analysis - It makes me feel like I'm using VB.NET's background
compiler, and thats a GREAT thing.
- Code navigation - VS2005 goto definition is much improved ( it doesn't
simply go to the first overload that if finds, it shows a list of
overloads), but R#s is done as it should, ie, it looks at the types

you're

using on the method and goes to the correct overload EVERY TIME. I've

even

mapped my F12 key to it :)

>
>

Cheers,
Paulo

>
>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in

message

news:c9l20l$v12$1@is.intellij.net...

Valentin, what do you mean "far from being usable"?

>

Many of the features did not worked properly when I tried it. There

was

multiple usablity flaws and I thought it was difficult to use it for

any

production work. I didn't try though. Just my opinion.

>

Obviously it's a Alpha Version, and so you can expect some crashes,
but on the performance side, for instance, intelisense and coloring

is

a lot faster on VS2005 than it is on R# is at the moment. If you

only

take into consideration the code editor, > most of the time

usability

of VS2005 is on par or better than on VS2003. If it weren't for R# I
would go nuts going back to VS2003 to do any work.

>

Of course, it's an Alpha Version (as well as ReSharper).
I did not understand, did you prefer to use VS2005 or VS2003 + R# for
production work?

>
>

Like many here I'm in love with R# ( where have you been the last 4
years? ), but don't be mistaken, the current feature set of R#

doesn't

seem a good a match for VS2005.

>

What do you mean? It's hard to compare an IDE and a add-in. What is

missing

in the current R#?

>

But then again, R# is now ( or almost now), and VS2005 is at least 1
year from now...

>

Of course. We are not going to take the rest for this year :).

>

Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>

"Joao Paulo Carreiro" <anonymous@anonymous.com> wrote in message
news:c9l17u$qsm$1@is.intellij.net...

Valentin, what do you mean "far from being usable"?

>

Obviously it's a Alpha Version, and so you can expect some crashes,

but

on

the performance side, for instance, intelisense and coloring is a

lot

faster

on VS2005 than it is on R# is at the moment.
If you only take into consideration the code editor, most of the

time

usability of VS2005 is on par or better than on VS2003.
(As a side note, R# is getting there, and it's the only thing that

makes

going VS2003 bearable .)

>

Like many here I'm in love with R# ( where have you been the last 4
years? ), but don't be mistaken, the current feature set of R#

doesn't

seem

a good a match for VS2005.

>

But then again, R# is now ( or almost now), and VS2005 is at least 1

year

from now...

>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in

message

news:c9kad5$g7q$1@is.intellij.net...

Of course we need to have most of VS functionality plus more.

(However

I

do

not think we need ALL the functionality of VS, do you use ALL VS

features?)
>

As for Whidbey fuinctionality, I read something in the Internet

and

looked

at the previews. Of course, they move in the right direction but

the

current

implementation is too far from being usable IMO. Of course, they

will

get

much better in the release.

>

BTW what in particular looks very good in VS.NET2005? Just

wondering

what

people like...

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

"Derek Price" <dprice@doble.com> wrote in message
news:c9ifft$e4s$1@is.intellij.net...

Yes - in what way? I know you never like to reveal your secrets

to

your

competitors, but some of the refactoring in VS.NET2005 looks

very

good.

ReSharper needs to be able to have all the duplicate

functionality

plus

more

to compete. Refer to these links , for known

functionality -

I'm

sure there are better links, but these were the first ones I

could

find.

>

http://www.enterprisej2me.com/blog/ms/?postid=20

>

>

>

>

>

>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dv_vstechart/html/whidbey_csharp_preview.asp

>

"Andrey Simanovsky (JetBrains)" <ands@jetbrains.com> wrote in

message

news:c9i706$mae$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in

Whidbey

but

we

definitely are going to compete with it.

In what way?

>

--
Andrey Simanovsky
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>
>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote

in

message

news:c9i5km$clk$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in

Whidbey

but

we

definitely are going to compete with it.

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

>
>

>
>

>
>

>
>
>

>
>


0
Comment actions Permalink

Hi,

Sometimes I see a 3 seconds delay on the first intelisense use of a file (
even on a file with 30 lines of code), but that might just be my HD

catching

up, because if I close the file and try again it doesn't happen.


On the first run our intellisense parses XML documentation for items which
are going to be suggested.
This tooks some time. For the next run this info is cached.

--
Eugene Pasynkov
Developer
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"
"Joao Paulo Carreiro" <anonymous@anonymous.com> wrote in message
news:c9po9p$vrq$1@is.intellij.net...

I could not reproduce the delay. Are there any particular details that

may

help us to reproduce it? How big the files are, how long the list is? Do
other guys here notice any delays?

>

Ok... That's not fair, I was talking about .83 and you guys release .84
where you've improved the performance tremendously. ;)
Sometimes I see a 3 seconds delay on the first intelisense use of a file (
even on a file with 30 lines of code), but that might just be my HD

catching

up, because if I close the file and try again it doesn't happen.

>
>

I carefully checked that and here are the results.

>

On VS side:
- Encapsulate Field
- Extract Interface

How about the Promote Local Variable to Parameter?

>

>

On our side:
- Move Type --

Never really needed to use it, but I can see it can be needed.

>

- Introduce Variable

Love it.

- Plus we are going to have 4-6 additional refactorings in the release

Can you share the list of new refactorings?

>

(Honestly, I see no big advantage of having Encapsulate Field

refactoring

in

C#. Just rename the field so its name starts uppercase, then change its

name

back and generate the property. That's all.)

I use that refactoring a lot of times ( on C# Refactory) on "legacy" code.
Yes, it's simple to do with a Rename refactoring, and then some tweeking,
but on that case it should be quite easy for you to implement it, no?

>

R#, it sometimes take more than 10 seconds for the colors to show.

>
That was ver .83 - On ver .84 by the time VS2003 opens the file (500

lines)

and displays it the colorings are done, and on files with 2000 lines it
takes 1 second. That's fantastic, but not instantaneous. ( P4 2 GHZ, 1GB
RAM)

In fact they color only type names (am I wrong?). It needs a very simple
analisys to do that.

You're right. They only color User Types( Enums, Classes, Delegates,
Interfaces, Value Types ), and I personally don't see the value of member
coloring. If that's a big performance eater and it's not used on other
places ( like code analysis) , can we turn it off?

>

Anyway we are going to fix the speed of the coloring soon.

You already did most of it ;)

>

Cheers,
Paulo

>
>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:c9plrt$19v$1@is.intellij.net...

- Code completion - R# wins here on features, but the speed is still
lacking. The diference is imediate response from VS vs a noticiable

lag

(

less than a second, granted) from R# sometimes.

>

I could not reproduce the delay. Are there any particular details that

may

help us to reproduce it? How big the files are, how long the list is? Do
other guys here notice any delays?

>

- Refactoring - There's more refactorings on VS at the moment.

>

I carefully checked that and here are the results.

>

On VS side:
- Encapsulate Field
- Extract Interface

>

On our side:
- Move Type
- Introduce Variable
- Plus we are going to have 4-6 additional refactorings in the release

>

(Honestly, I see no big advantage of having Encapsulate Field

refactoring

in

C#. Just rename the field so its name starts uppercase, then change its

name

back and generate the property. That's all.)

>

- Coloring - VS has got about the same features ( minus the coloring

of

methods), but does it a lot faster. When I open a big file (2000

lines)

in

R#, it sometimes take more than 10 seconds for the colors to show.

>

In fact they color only type names (am I wrong?). It needs a very simple
analisys to do that.
Anyway we are going to fix the speed of the coloring soon.

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>

"Joao Paulo Carreiro" <anonymous@anonymous.com> wrote in message
news:c9pjkr$aqd$1@is.intellij.net...

Of course, it's an Alpha Version (as well as ReSharper).
I did not understand, did you prefer to use VS2005 or VS2003 + R#

for

production work?

>

You can't use VS2005 for production work ( the EULA doesn't allow it).
But if I could, I would prefer VS2005 vs VS2003 & R#, because the
intelisense, coloring and refactoring are a lost faster in VS2005 than

they

are on VS2003 & R#

>
>

What do you mean? It's hard to compare an IDE and a add-in. What is
missing in the current R#?

I'm only comparing the features that you seem to be aiming at. And I'm
taking into consideration that if you want R# then you'll have VS, so

any

feature that VS has, is a feature that R# should do better and at

least

as

fast.
- Code completion - R# wins here on features, but the speed is still
lacking. The diference is imediate response from VS vs a noticiable

lag

(

less than a second, granted) from R# sometimes.
- Refactoring - There's more refactorings on VS at the moment.
- Coloring - VS has got about the same features ( minus the coloring

of

methods), but does it a lot faster. When I open a big file (2000

lines)

in

R#, it sometimes take more than 10 seconds for the colors to show.
- Templates - About the same feature set and speed.

>
>

Obviuslly you do have some features that VS doesn't have like:
- Code Analysis - It makes me feel like I'm using VB.NET's background
compiler, and thats a GREAT thing.
- Code navigation - VS2005 goto definition is much improved ( it

doesn't

simply go to the first overload that if finds, it shows a list of
overloads), but R#s is done as it should, ie, it looks at the types

you're

using on the method and goes to the correct overload EVERY TIME. I've

even

mapped my F12 key to it :)

>
>

Cheers,
Paulo

>
>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in

message

news:c9l20l$v12$1@is.intellij.net...

Valentin, what do you mean "far from being usable"?

>

Many of the features did not worked properly when I tried it. There

was

multiple usablity flaws and I thought it was difficult to use it for

any

production work. I didn't try though. Just my opinion.

>

Obviously it's a Alpha Version, and so you can expect some

crashes,

but on the performance side, for instance, intelisense and

coloring

is

a lot faster on VS2005 than it is on R# is at the moment. If you

only

take into consideration the code editor, > most of the time

usability

of VS2005 is on par or better than on VS2003. If it weren't for R#

I

would go nuts going back to VS2003 to do any work.

>

Of course, it's an Alpha Version (as well as ReSharper).
I did not understand, did you prefer to use VS2005 or VS2003 + R#

for

production work?

>
>

Like many here I'm in love with R# ( where have you been the last

4

years? ), but don't be mistaken, the current feature set of R#

doesn't

seem a good a match for VS2005.

>

What do you mean? It's hard to compare an IDE and a add-in. What is

missing

in the current R#?

>

But then again, R# is now ( or almost now), and VS2005 is at least

1

year from now...

>

Of course. We are not going to take the rest for this year :).

>

Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>

"Joao Paulo Carreiro" <anonymous@anonymous.com> wrote in message
news:c9l17u$qsm$1@is.intellij.net...

Valentin, what do you mean "far from being usable"?

>

Obviously it's a Alpha Version, and so you can expect some

crashes,

but

on

the performance side, for instance, intelisense and coloring is a

lot

faster

on VS2005 than it is on R# is at the moment.
If you only take into consideration the code editor, most of the

time

usability of VS2005 is on par or better than on VS2003.
(As a side note, R# is getting there, and it's the only thing that

makes

going VS2003 bearable .)

>

Like many here I'm in love with R# ( where have you been the last

4

years? ), but don't be mistaken, the current feature set of R#

doesn't

seem

a good a match for VS2005.

>

But then again, R# is now ( or almost now), and VS2005 is at least

1

year

from now...

>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in

message

news:c9kad5$g7q$1@is.intellij.net...

Of course we need to have most of VS functionality plus more.

(However

I

do

not think we need ALL the functionality of VS, do you use ALL VS

features?)
>

As for Whidbey fuinctionality, I read something in the Internet

and

looked

at the previews. Of course, they move in the right direction but

the

current

implementation is too far from being usable IMO. Of course, they

will

get

much better in the release.

>

BTW what in particular looks very good in VS.NET2005? Just

wondering

what

people like...

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

"Derek Price" <dprice@doble.com> wrote in message
news:c9ifft$e4s$1@is.intellij.net...

Yes - in what way? I know you never like to reveal your

secrets

to

your

competitors, but some of the refactoring in VS.NET2005 looks

very

good.

ReSharper needs to be able to have all the duplicate

functionality

plus

more

to compete. Refer to these links , for known

functionality -

I'm

sure there are better links, but these were the first ones I

could

find.

>

http://www.enterprisej2me.com/blog/ms/?postid=20

>

>

>

>

>

>

>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dv_vstechart/html/whidbey_csharp_preview.asp

>

"Andrey Simanovsky (JetBrains)" <ands@jetbrains.com> wrote in

message

news:c9i706$mae$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in

Whidbey

but

we

definitely are going to compete with it.

In what way?

>

--
Andrey Simanovsky
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>
>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com>

wrote

in

message

news:c9i5km$clk$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in

Whidbey

but

we

definitely are going to compete with it.

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

>
>

>
>

>
>

>
>
>

>
>

>
>


0
Comment actions Permalink

How about the Promote Local Variable to Parameter?


Isn't that what Change Signature can do?

Can you share the list of new refactorings?


http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/ReSharper/FeaturesforReSharper+release

Yes, it's simple to do with a Rename refactoring, and then some tweeking,
but on that case it should be quite easy for you to implement it, no?


Yes, it should be easy to implement it.
Just after I send you this workaround, someone here said me that there is an
important case which I'm missing. Very often I want to expose only read
access to the property but still have assignments in the body of the class.
With the above workaround I will have to manually correct all write accesses
inside the class.
Maybe it makes sense to implement this refactoring for the release...

You're right. They only color User Types( Enums, Classes, Delegates,
Interfaces, Value Types ), and I personally don't see the value of member
coloring. If that's a big performance eater and it's not used on other
places ( like code analysis) , can we turn it off?


There is no sense in turning this off. We anyway do full code analisys to
highlight syntax errors. Symbols highlighting we get for granted.

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

"Joao Paulo Carreiro" <anonymous@anonymous.com> wrote in message
news:c9po9p$vrq$1@is.intellij.net...

I could not reproduce the delay. Are there any particular details that

may

help us to reproduce it? How big the files are, how long the list is? Do
other guys here notice any delays?

>

Ok... That's not fair, I was talking about .83 and you guys release .84
where you've improved the performance tremendously. ;)
Sometimes I see a 3 seconds delay on the first intelisense use of a file (
even on a file with 30 lines of code), but that might just be my HD

catching

up, because if I close the file and try again it doesn't happen.

>
>

I carefully checked that and here are the results.

>

On VS side:
- Encapsulate Field
- Extract Interface

How about the Promote Local Variable to Parameter?

>

>

On our side:
- Move Type --

Never really needed to use it, but I can see it can be needed.

>

- Introduce Variable

Love it.

- Plus we are going to have 4-6 additional refactorings in the release

Can you share the list of new refactorings?

>

(Honestly, I see no big advantage of having Encapsulate Field

refactoring

in

C#. Just rename the field so its name starts uppercase, then change its

name

back and generate the property. That's all.)

I use that refactoring a lot of times ( on C# Refactory) on "legacy" code.
Yes, it's simple to do with a Rename refactoring, and then some tweeking,
but on that case it should be quite easy for you to implement it, no?

>

R#, it sometimes take more than 10 seconds for the colors to show.

>
That was ver .83 - On ver .84 by the time VS2003 opens the file (500

lines)

and displays it the colorings are done, and on files with 2000 lines it
takes 1 second. That's fantastic, but not instantaneous. ( P4 2 GHZ, 1GB
RAM)

In fact they color only type names (am I wrong?). It needs a very simple
analisys to do that.

You're right. They only color User Types( Enums, Classes, Delegates,
Interfaces, Value Types ), and I personally don't see the value of member
coloring. If that's a big performance eater and it's not used on other
places ( like code analysis) , can we turn it off?

>

Anyway we are going to fix the speed of the coloring soon.

You already did most of it ;)

>

Cheers,
Paulo

>
>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:c9plrt$19v$1@is.intellij.net...

- Code completion - R# wins here on features, but the speed is still
lacking. The diference is imediate response from VS vs a noticiable

lag

(

less than a second, granted) from R# sometimes.

>

I could not reproduce the delay. Are there any particular details that

may

help us to reproduce it? How big the files are, how long the list is? Do
other guys here notice any delays?

>

- Refactoring - There's more refactorings on VS at the moment.

>

I carefully checked that and here are the results.

>

On VS side:
- Encapsulate Field
- Extract Interface

>

On our side:
- Move Type
- Introduce Variable
- Plus we are going to have 4-6 additional refactorings in the release

>

(Honestly, I see no big advantage of having Encapsulate Field

refactoring

in

C#. Just rename the field so its name starts uppercase, then change its

name

back and generate the property. That's all.)

>

- Coloring - VS has got about the same features ( minus the coloring

of

methods), but does it a lot faster. When I open a big file (2000

lines)

in

R#, it sometimes take more than 10 seconds for the colors to show.

>

In fact they color only type names (am I wrong?). It needs a very simple
analisys to do that.
Anyway we are going to fix the speed of the coloring soon.

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>

"Joao Paulo Carreiro" <anonymous@anonymous.com> wrote in message
news:c9pjkr$aqd$1@is.intellij.net...

Of course, it's an Alpha Version (as well as ReSharper).
I did not understand, did you prefer to use VS2005 or VS2003 + R#

for

production work?

>

You can't use VS2005 for production work ( the EULA doesn't allow it).
But if I could, I would prefer VS2005 vs VS2003 & R#, because the
intelisense, coloring and refactoring are a lost faster in VS2005 than

they

are on VS2003 & R#

>
>

What do you mean? It's hard to compare an IDE and a add-in. What is
missing in the current R#?

I'm only comparing the features that you seem to be aiming at. And I'm
taking into consideration that if you want R# then you'll have VS, so

any

feature that VS has, is a feature that R# should do better and at

least

as

fast.
- Code completion - R# wins here on features, but the speed is still
lacking. The diference is imediate response from VS vs a noticiable

lag

(

less than a second, granted) from R# sometimes.
- Refactoring - There's more refactorings on VS at the moment.
- Coloring - VS has got about the same features ( minus the coloring

of

methods), but does it a lot faster. When I open a big file (2000

lines)

in

R#, it sometimes take more than 10 seconds for the colors to show.
- Templates - About the same feature set and speed.

>
>

Obviuslly you do have some features that VS doesn't have like:
- Code Analysis - It makes me feel like I'm using VB.NET's background
compiler, and thats a GREAT thing.
- Code navigation - VS2005 goto definition is much improved ( it

doesn't

simply go to the first overload that if finds, it shows a list of
overloads), but R#s is done as it should, ie, it looks at the types

you're

using on the method and goes to the correct overload EVERY TIME. I've

even

mapped my F12 key to it :)

>
>

Cheers,
Paulo

>
>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in

message

news:c9l20l$v12$1@is.intellij.net...

Valentin, what do you mean "far from being usable"?

>

Many of the features did not worked properly when I tried it. There

was

multiple usablity flaws and I thought it was difficult to use it for

any

production work. I didn't try though. Just my opinion.

>

Obviously it's a Alpha Version, and so you can expect some

crashes,

but on the performance side, for instance, intelisense and

coloring

is

a lot faster on VS2005 than it is on R# is at the moment. If you

only

take into consideration the code editor, > most of the time

usability

of VS2005 is on par or better than on VS2003. If it weren't for R#

I

would go nuts going back to VS2003 to do any work.

>

Of course, it's an Alpha Version (as well as ReSharper).
I did not understand, did you prefer to use VS2005 or VS2003 + R#

for

production work?

>
>

Like many here I'm in love with R# ( where have you been the last

4

years? ), but don't be mistaken, the current feature set of R#

doesn't

seem a good a match for VS2005.

>

What do you mean? It's hard to compare an IDE and a add-in. What is

missing

in the current R#?

>

But then again, R# is now ( or almost now), and VS2005 is at least

1

year from now...

>

Of course. We are not going to take the rest for this year :).

>

Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>

"Joao Paulo Carreiro" <anonymous@anonymous.com> wrote in message
news:c9l17u$qsm$1@is.intellij.net...

Valentin, what do you mean "far from being usable"?

>

Obviously it's a Alpha Version, and so you can expect some

crashes,

but

on

the performance side, for instance, intelisense and coloring is a

lot

faster

on VS2005 than it is on R# is at the moment.
If you only take into consideration the code editor, most of the

time

usability of VS2005 is on par or better than on VS2003.
(As a side note, R# is getting there, and it's the only thing that

makes

going VS2003 bearable .)

>

Like many here I'm in love with R# ( where have you been the last

4

years? ), but don't be mistaken, the current feature set of R#

doesn't

seem

a good a match for VS2005.

>

But then again, R# is now ( or almost now), and VS2005 is at least

1

year

from now...

>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in

message

news:c9kad5$g7q$1@is.intellij.net...

Of course we need to have most of VS functionality plus more.

(However

I

do

not think we need ALL the functionality of VS, do you use ALL VS

features?)
>

As for Whidbey fuinctionality, I read something in the Internet

and

looked

at the previews. Of course, they move in the right direction but

the

current

implementation is too far from being usable IMO. Of course, they

will

get

much better in the release.

>

BTW what in particular looks very good in VS.NET2005? Just

wondering

what

people like...

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

"Derek Price" <dprice@doble.com> wrote in message
news:c9ifft$e4s$1@is.intellij.net...

Yes - in what way? I know you never like to reveal your

secrets

to

your

competitors, but some of the refactoring in VS.NET2005 looks

very

good.

ReSharper needs to be able to have all the duplicate

functionality

plus

more

to compete. Refer to these links , for known

functionality -

I'm

sure there are better links, but these were the first ones I

could

find.

>

http://www.enterprisej2me.com/blog/ms/?postid=20

>

>

>

>

>

>

>
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dv_vstechart/html/whidbey_csharp_preview.asp

>

"Andrey Simanovsky (JetBrains)" <ands@jetbrains.com> wrote in

message

news:c9i706$mae$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in

Whidbey

but

we

definitely are going to compete with it.

In what way?

>

--
Andrey Simanovsky
Software Developer
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>
>

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com>

wrote

in

message

news:c9i5km$clk$1@is.intellij.net...

It's currently not clear enough which features will be in

Whidbey

but

we

definitely are going to compete with it.

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>

>
>

>
>

>
>

>
>
>

>
>

>
>


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I reckon this will be a C# development environment. Will you ever consider making a C++ developmnet environment as well? If not, what are the reasons for not making it? I have been using IntelliJ IDEA for a couple of years. Now that I have to move on to C++, I can't seem to find any IDE that suits my needs as well as IDEA did when programming Java.

So, will you ever make a C++ development environment? :)

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C++ seems to be very hard to process especially with Win32-like style of
programming (extensive use of macros, huge header files etc). Maybe C++ for
.NET programming style will be better but I just not sure that most of C++
programmers won't switch to C# if they move to .NET.

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


"Rune Vistnes" <vistnesr@online.no> wrote in message
news:15706372.1086353126119.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...

I reckon this will be a C# development environment. Will you ever consider

making a C++ developmnet environment as well? If not, what are the reasons
for not making it? I have been using IntelliJ IDEA for a couple of years.
Now that I have to move on to C++, I can't seem to find any IDE that suits
my needs as well as IDEA did when programming Java.
>

So, will you ever make a C++ development environment? :)




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I can't seem to find any IDE that suits my needs as well as IDEA did when

programming Java.

Just curious, what kind of C++ programming do you do? Win32 programming,
.NET programming, or something else?

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


"Rune Vistnes" <vistnesr@online.no> wrote in message
news:15706372.1086353126119.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...

I reckon this will be a C# development environment. Will you ever consider

making a C++ developmnet environment as well? If not, what are the reasons
for not making it? I have been using IntelliJ IDEA for a couple of years.
Now that I have to move on to C++, I can't seem to find any IDE that suits
my needs as well as IDEA did when programming Java.
>

So, will you ever make a C++ development environment? :)




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I've learnt the basics of C++ (differences between Java and C++), and now I've moved on to OpenGL programming. My current project is a car game, which is a kind of fun.. :) Why do you ask?

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Why do you ask?


Just curious. We are considering providing support for C++ but have not
decided anything yet.

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

"Rune Vistnes" <runevistnes@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:27911888.1086904554633.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...

I've learnt the basics of C++ (differences between Java and C++), and now

I've moved on to OpenGL programming. My current project is a car game, which
is a kind of fun.. :) Why do you ask?


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I hope you decide to provide support for C+. When moving to .NET, some people will change to C#, that's true. But still many people will continue using C+. The two programming languages have different ranges of use, and for that reason, both will coexist for many years to come. That's what I think at least.. :)

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No doubt C++ will exist for years. If tasks to support C# and C++ had the
same complexity we would support both. Unfortunately C++ is much harder to
treat with.

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

"Rune Vistnes" <runevistnes@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:32736759.1086961497165.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...

I hope you decide to provide support for C++. When moving to .NET, some

people will change to C#, that's true. But still many people will continue
using C++. The two programming languages have different ranges of use, and
for that reason, both will coexist for many years to come. That's what I
think at least.. :)


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Once I tried to find a C++ refactoring tool,
but I completely failed. It seems that the preprocessor (let alone
the complexity of the C++ language) is already an insurmountable obstacle
for
tool developers.

If anyone is aware of such a tool, I'd be very interested.

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:cace7o$cvv$1@is.intellij.net...

No doubt C++ will exist for years. If tasks to support C# and C++ had the
same complexity we would support both. Unfortunately C++ is much harder to
treat with.

>

--
Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>

"Rune Vistnes" <runevistnes@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:32736759.1086961497165.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...

I hope you decide to provide support for C++. When moving to .NET, some

people will change to C#, that's true. But still many people will continue
using C++. The two programming languages have different ranges of use, and
for that reason, both will coexist for many years to come. That's what I
think at least.. :)

>
>


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I did some checking, and it seems like the latest version of Visual SlickEdit has some C++ refactoring. You can check it out at http://www.slickedit.com/products/pr_visual_slickedit.php.

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Rune,

thanks for this reference, I'll try it.

"Rune Vistnes" <runevistnes@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:17362786.1086993092571.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...

I did some checking, and it seems like the latest version of Visual

SlickEdit has some C++ refactoring. You can check it out at
http://www.slickedit.com/products/pr_visual_slickedit.php.


0

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