ReSharper EAP Reliability

I've been using the ReSharper 2 EAP for VS2005 and VS2003 since it was
available. I'm a big fan of ReSharper and was sorely missing it for the
early betas of VS2005 so please bear this in mind.

Today I've uninstalled the ReSharper 2.0 EAP on both VS2003 and VS2005.
I was using the latest EAP build 210. In the last few builds it seems to
been getting more and more buggy, to the extent now that it's becoming
unusable.

Most of the features don't work:

  • Many refactorings tend to hang VS, with the processor pegged at near

100% - not good as this can lose work. So I stopped using refactorings
altogether.

  • Intellisense just keeps saying no suggestions and doesn't pop up on

"." any more - I have to use the Ctrl-Space and its variants. Since it
doesn't give any info, though, I switched back to VS intellisense.

  • Exception tracking dialog pops up very frequently and tends to get

into a loop with new exceptions, even if the ignore option is ticked.
This requires killing VS, again losing work.

  • I have to delete the ReSharper cache before loading a solution or I

get exceptions immediately in many cases.

At the same time each new EAP release seems to add additional
refactoring and other new features.

My plea is: please focus on improving the EAP stability before adding
any new features. I'll try each new EAP build but if stability doesn't
improve, I'll have to uninstall immediately.

I read the recent posting by someone making similar comments and he was
flamed. I suppose I'll get flamed too, but I do sincerely want to help
to make ReSharper 2.0 a great product. The only way to do this is to use
it for real work. You can't dogfood by just having a quick taste of a
new build - you have to use it for real work. So please take these
comments as positive suggestions on the current development focus.

Cheers,

MikeS.

35 comments
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Dear Mike,
Dear list,

In article <dm4b0j$n3v$1@is.intellij.net>, mike@mikescommunity.com
says...


Today I've uninstalled the ReSharper 2.0 EAP on both VS2003 and VS2005.
I was using the latest EAP build 210. In the last few builds it seems to
been getting more and more buggy, to the extent now that it's becoming
unusable.

Most of the features don't work:


I have to agree here. When I read that build 210 cranks out 8 new
features, but there are still problems with Intellisense, then I have to
ask myself: How can I appreciate a car's new spoiler if the steering
wheel is still missing? Focusing on bug fixing should have the highest
priority.

I completely understand the EAP vision, but you can only go that far
while still trying to accomplish useful work in your coding environment.

Don't get me wrong, even VS2005 feels like a dumb text editor without
ReSharper, but it seems I will have to wait until mid January before I
will again consider installing a 2.0 build (even worse because 2.0
overwrites my 1.5 settings file for VS2003, which was a _very, very bad
idea_(TM) to do, IMHO).

Cheers,

Christian

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There are indeed still lots of bugs and I understand why some of you want to
uninstall the EAP builds. But if everybody would do this how long would it
take to deliver working software? Imagine Microsoft not release beta's of
Windows Vista because everybody would be waiting for the stable release...

I love ReSharper and I am using build 210. Yes it crashes a lot but then you
can submit the bug and enter what you were doing and I have always had the
opportunity to save my work and restart Visual Studio if I had to.

Gabriel Lozano-Morán
MCSD .NET
Real Software
http://www.realdn.net
http://www.realsoftware.be


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I disagree Christian. Focusing on bug fixing should not be the highest priority. The highest priority should be whatever the development team decide is most important to have a successful product that falls within their timeframe.

I agree that the product is rather unstable right now, but no one on the outside should say what their overall priorities should be.

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In article <22472468.1132842726421.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost>,
no_mail@jetbrains.com says...

I disagree Christian. Focusing on bug fixing should not be the highest priority.
The highest priority should be whatever the development team decide is most
important to have a successful product that falls within their timeframe.


I guess the problem is that with ReSharper 1.5 I got accustomed to a
stable, usable product. I got used to working Intellisense and Highlight
Usages, which greatly affected my style of working.

If the features that I used all of the time have now fallen into
regression, I cannot test new features easily, because my workflow got
heavily interrupted. I don't mind the casual exception window popping
up, but basic features that used to work should be working again before
new, possibly less important features from somebody's wish list, are
added (and which increase the probability of still more bugs being
introduced).

I agree that the working set of features that everybody uses all of the
time varies, but one might still imagine that things like Intellisense
are used by a large percentage of ReSharper users.

I'm (mostly) with Joel Spolsky about this topic, who says that no
developer should add features if there is still bugfixing work to do.
One might argue that this rule might be applied less strictly for an EAP
programme, but what good is it to have ReSharper stuffed with features
when it will take another 2.5 months to stabilize the code? YMMV, but I
cannot remember stability appearing just like that in an ever increasing
code base.

I agree that the product is rather unstable right now, but no one on the
outside should say what their overall priorities should be.


Oh, I guess the girls and guys at JetBrains won't be that heavily
influenced by a little newsgroup posting :)

Cheers,

Christian

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Christian,

Christian Eitner wrote:

Oh, I guess the girls and guys at JetBrains won't be that heavily
influenced by a little newsgroup posting :)


Every EAP build that we publish is a trade-off between regression and
new features. We cannot completely concentrate on stability since we
won't get any new features done, and we have to have something working,
or otherwise we won't get any feedback on that.

So, it is perfectly OK to criticize the quality of EAP builds AS LONG AS
you bear this trade-off in mind. We try to achieve the balance here by
using very current (hot off the compiler) builds in our daily work, and
we release EAP builds only if the whole team uses it. However, we do not
do any, say, web development here, so if we have a horrible bug in, say,
ASP support, we may sometimes miss it. Yell then :)

Cheers,
Dmitry

--
Dmitry Lomov
Senior Software Developer
JetBrains Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop With Pleasure!"

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And we'll stop adding new features in about one week and concentrate on bugfixes
after that.

Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

Christian,

Christian Eitner wrote:

>> Oh, I guess the girls and guys at JetBrains won't be that heavily
>> influenced by a little newsgroup posting :)
>>

Every EAP build that we publish is a trade-off between regression and
new features. We cannot completely concentrate on stability since we
won't get any new features done, and we have to have something
working, or otherwise we won't get any feedback on that.

So, it is perfectly OK to criticize the quality of EAP builds AS LONG
AS you bear this trade-off in mind. We try to achieve the balance here
by using very current (hot off the compiler) builds in our daily work,
and we release EAP builds only if the whole team uses it. However, we
do not do any, say, web development here, so if we have a horrible bug
in, say, ASP support, we may sometimes miss it. Yell then :)

Cheers,
Dmitry



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In article <3fdb29a69874c8c7bf4254b1fc42@news.intellij.net>,
valentin@jetbrains.com says...

And we'll stop adding new features in about one week and concentrate on bugfixes
after that.


So it seems I will fire up my tracker account and install an EAP before
Christmas ;)

Christian

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these guys at jetbrains do an awesome job of releasing tools with
indispensable features that you just can't find anywhere else. i
personally will be the LAST one to criticize developers that
consistently deliver high quality products that have such at massive
impact at companies as big as microsoft on down to small companies like
mine with just a handful of developers.

additionally, jetbrains' magnanimity lies in providing early access to
tools that aren't even in beta yet. suffice to say that NO commercial
development should be done with these tools.

finally, with respect to the joel spolsky comment, i interpreted his
missives on the topic of bug fixes such that he was referring to adding
functionality to an existing product without first fixing the entrenched
bugs. i don't think that he intended for his prescription to be
extrapolated to pre-beta products. nonetheless, if anybody feels
compelled, they're welcome to write him in order to seek clarification.
i'm comfortable in assuming that dmitry and valentin have a pretty good
handle on how to develop working, useful software.

-r



Christian Eitner wrote:

In article <3fdb29a69874c8c7bf4254b1fc42@news.intellij.net>,
valentin@jetbrains.com says...

>>And we'll stop adding new features in about one week and concentrate on bugfixes
>>after that.


So it seems I will fire up my tracker account and install an EAP before
Christmas ;)

Christian

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Hi Valentin

Excellent news! Looking forward to 211.

Cheers,

MikeS.

Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains) wrote:

And we'll stop adding new features in about one week and concentrate on
bugfixes after that.

Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>> Christian,
>>
>> Christian Eitner wrote:
>>
>>> Oh, I guess the girls and guys at JetBrains won't be that heavily
>>> influenced by a little newsgroup posting :)
>>>
>> Every EAP build that we publish is a trade-off between regression and
>> new features. We cannot completely concentrate on stability since we
>> won't get any new features done, and we have to have something
>> working, or otherwise we won't get any feedback on that.
>>
>> So, it is perfectly OK to criticize the quality of EAP builds AS LONG
>> AS you bear this trade-off in mind. We try to achieve the balance here
>> by using very current (hot off the compiler) builds in our daily work,
>> and we release EAP builds only if the whole team uses it. However, we
>> do not do any, say, web development here, so if we have a horrible bug
>> in, say, ASP support, we may sometimes miss it. Yell then :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Dmitry


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Comment actions Permalink

>> There are indeed still lots of bugs and I understand why
>> some of you want to uninstall the EAP builds. But if
>> everybody would do this how long would it take to
>> deliver working software?

You make my point for me. You have to face reality. If your beta builds
are too buggy, test sites will not use them. That's a fact of life for a
software developer. You have to tread a fine line between features and
stability. Getting feedback from your testers on whether you're going
too far from that line is crucial.

What's also important, however, is that loyal and enthusiastic testers
such as myself and Christian should feel comfortable making clear their
concerns to the development team without being bashed by others who
don't agree. We should all feel free to express honest opinion here.
You're free to express your opinion, but if it's one that stifles the
free expression of others, then it's not good, IMO.

If we just uninstall the EAP without telling JetBrains, then we're not
helping at all. It's far better that they know that and then they can
decide whether or not they wish to focus more on bug fixing.

Cheers,

MikeS.

Gabriel Lozano-Morán wrote:

There are indeed still lots of bugs and I understand why some of you want to
uninstall the EAP builds. But if everybody would do this how long would it
take to deliver working software? Imagine Microsoft not release beta's of
Windows Vista because everybody would be waiting for the stable release...

I love ReSharper and I am using build 210. Yes it crashes a lot but then you
can submit the bug and enter what you were doing and I have always had the
opportunity to save my work and restart Visual Studio if I had to.

Gabriel Lozano-Morán
MCSD .NET
Real Software
http://www.realdn.net
http://www.realsoftware.be

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I've a lot of problems with the EAP builds.
To the point where I uninstalled all the previous builds.
I'm currently using 210 for the longest time to write production code.
I'm heavily into generics, delegates, and all the new features of the
features of 2.0

This means that the support from R# is not so great on many things. I get
~10 exception a day.
That said, I find that I'm much more productive with a buggy R# than I'm
without it. And I'll be the first to admit that I do not know every little
thing that you can do with R#.
The little things provide so much benefit over a long range of time...

"Mike Scott" <mike@mikescommunity.com> wrote in message
news:dm4b0j$n3v$1@is.intellij.net...

I've been using the ReSharper 2 EAP for VS2005 and VS2003 since it was
available. I'm a big fan of ReSharper and was sorely missing it for the
early betas of VS2005 so please bear this in mind.

>

Today I've uninstalled the ReSharper 2.0 EAP on both VS2003 and VS2005. I
was using the latest EAP build 210. In the last few builds it seems to
been getting more and more buggy, to the extent now that it's becoming
unusable.

>

Most of the features don't work:

>

  • Many refactorings tend to hang VS, with the processor pegged at near

100% - not good as this can lose work. So I stopped using refactorings
altogether.

>

  • Intellisense just keeps saying no suggestions and doesn't pop up on "."

any more - I have to use the Ctrl-Space and its variants. Since it doesn't
give any info, though, I switched back to VS intellisense.

>

  • Exception tracking dialog pops up very frequently and tends to get into

a loop with new exceptions, even if the ignore option is ticked. This
requires killing VS, again losing work.

>

  • I have to delete the ReSharper cache before loading a solution or I get

exceptions immediately in many cases.

>

At the same time each new EAP release seems to add additional refactoring
and other new features.

>

My plea is: please focus on improving the EAP stability before adding any
new features. I'll try each new EAP build but if stability doesn't
improve, I'll have to uninstall immediately.

>

I read the recent posting by someone making similar comments and he was
flamed. I suppose I'll get flamed too, but I do sincerely want to help to
make ReSharper 2.0 a great product. The only way to do this is to use it
for real work. You can't dogfood by just having a quick taste of a new
build - you have to use it for real work. So please take these comments as
positive suggestions on the current development focus.

>

Cheers,

>

MikeS.



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What's also important, however, is that loyal and enthusiastic testers
such as myself and Christian should feel comfortable making clear their
concerns to the development team without being bashed by others who don't
agree. We should all feel free to express honest opinion here. You're free
to express your opinion, but if it's one that stifles the free expression
of others, then it's not good, IMO.


My sentiments exactly. I got some flak earlier this month when I complained
that the development team did not give a hoot when the R# EAP licenses
expired...
It's the R# addicts that really test and sell the product, we have the right
to complain when we think that the Dev team is not on track. It's our right,
we've earned it.

Amir


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]]>

That said, I find that I'm much more productive with a buggy R# than
I'm without it.

</snip>

I agree totally - I have more control over my environment and am more productive
even with the current bugs.

However, the VS05 Release IDE itself is not as stable as you'd like it to
be. My colleague who does not have R# installed moans about the IDE crashing
and doing things it should not pretty often.


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Here's hoping that the DLL-Reference fix is coming soon, then!! I've
essentially been unable to do much testing with my given projects because
this is missing, giving me tons of bogus red underlines on valid usages...
I'll be able to test a lot more once this feature is in.

"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:3fdb29a69874c8c7bf4254b1fc42@news.intellij.net...

And we'll stop adding new features in about one week and concentrate on
bugfixes after that.

>

Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>> Christian,
>>
>> Christian Eitner wrote:
>>
>>> Oh, I guess the girls and guys at JetBrains won't be that heavily
>>> influenced by a little newsgroup posting :)
>>>
>> Every EAP build that we publish is a trade-off between regression and
>> new features. We cannot completely concentrate on stability since we
>> won't get any new features done, and we have to have something
>> working, or otherwise we won't get any feedback on that.
>>
>> So, it is perfectly OK to criticize the quality of EAP builds AS LONG
>> AS you bear this trade-off in mind. We try to achieve the balance here
>> by using very current (hot off the compiler) builds in our daily work,
>> and we release EAP builds only if the whole team uses it. However, we
>> do not do any, say, web development here, so if we have a horrible bug
>> in, say, ASP support, we may sometimes miss it. Yell then :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Dmitry
>



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And I disagree.
It takes so much memory that every operation takes forever.
I am working with ASP projects it looks like support for ASP is not tested
properly.
It seems to me that it is a hole in testing.
Shimon

"Ayende Rahien" <Ayende@ayende.com> wrote in message
news:dm7bku$iuh$1@is.intellij.net...

I've a lot of problems with the EAP builds.
To the point where I uninstalled all the previous builds.
I'm currently using 210 for the longest time to write production code.
I'm heavily into generics, delegates, and all the new features of the
features of 2.0

>

This means that the support from R# is not so great on many things. I get
~10 exception a day.
That said, I find that I'm much more productive with a buggy R# than I'm
without it. And I'll be the first to admit that I do not know every little
thing that you can do with R#.
The little things provide so much benefit over a long range of time...

>

"Mike Scott" <mike@mikescommunity.com> wrote in message
news:dm4b0j$n3v$1@is.intellij.net...

>> I've been using the ReSharper 2 EAP for VS2005 and VS2003 since it was
>> available. I'm a big fan of ReSharper and was sorely missing it for the
>> early betas of VS2005 so please bear this in mind.
>>
>> Today I've uninstalled the ReSharper 2.0 EAP on both VS2003 and VS2005. I
>> was using the latest EAP build 210. In the last few builds it seems to
>> been getting more and more buggy, to the extent now that it's becoming
>> unusable.
>>
>> Most of the features don't work:
>>
>> * Many refactorings tend to hang VS, with the processor pegged at near
>> 100% - not good as this can lose work. So I stopped using refactorings
>> altogether.
>>
>> * Intellisense just keeps saying no suggestions and doesn't pop up on "."
>> any more - I have to use the Ctrl-Space and its variants. Since it
>> doesn't give any info, though, I switched back to VS intellisense.
>>
>> * Exception tracking dialog pops up very frequently and tends to get into
>> a loop with new exceptions, even if the ignore option is ticked. This
>> requires killing VS, again losing work.
>>
>> * I have to delete the ReSharper cache before loading a solution or I get
>> exceptions immediately in many cases.
>>
>> At the same time each new EAP release seems to add additional refactoring
>> and other new features.
>>
>> My plea is: please focus on improving the EAP stability before adding any
>> new features. I'll try each new EAP build but if stability doesn't
>> improve, I'll have to uninstall immediately.
>>
>> I read the recent posting by someone making similar comments and he was
>> flamed. I suppose I'll get flamed too, but I do sincerely want to help to
>> make ReSharper 2.0 a great product. The only way to do this is to use it
>> for real work. You can't dogfood by just having a quick taste of a new
>> build - you have to use it for real work. So please take these comments
>> as positive suggestions on the current development focus.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> MikeS.
>



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Shimon,

The problems with ASP are mostly caused by the fact, that we have no
development in ASP. And also, there are number of features still not
implemented due to our internal reasons. Problem reports with code pieces,
that illustrate them are highly appreciated.
--
Sergey V. Coox
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


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I have uninstalled 210 build.
I hope you realize that there are a lot of people using R# with ASP.NET and
lack of some kind of basic testing for ASP kills EAP for ASP project - we
can't do anything with this.
I have machine that has less then 1 GB of memory. So it due to R# the memory
usage of VS.NET (2003 or 2005) triples it slows down the whole machine.
Refreshing ASP.NET pages in design mode takes some resources and every time
IDE needs to refresh page (and that happens quite often) you are stuck
waiting.

Then I find that there is not Reformat... support of ASP.NET pages. (I
reported it before you probably didn't have chance to fix in 210) This is
the feature that I use the most.
So what is left. I understand that there are a lot of features that R# has
that are great but when I am working with IDE I feel faster without R# and I
am waiting for a stable build that will not kill performance of the whole
machine.

"Sergey V. Coox (JetBrains)" <qx@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:dmpaq3$hdu$1@is.intellij.net...

Shimon,

>

The problems with ASP are mostly caused by the fact, that we have no
development in ASP. And also, there are number of features still not
implemented due to our internal reasons. Problem reports with code pieces,
that illustrate them are highly appreciated.
--
Sergey V. Coox
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"



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Here we go again....

Shimon, do you realize that this is pre-beta software??? When you
develop software, do you even allow your users to test pre-beta? When I
do, I only provide a handful of people with access, and let them know
that not all of the functionality is present. These guys at JetBrains
are super-cool for providing early access to R#. And I'm sure that they
know that people are freaking out because all of the features and
functionality are NOT present in their PRE-BETA app. You're preaching to
the choir to Sergey and Valentin.

Just give these some time and breathing room.

-Ryan Cammer



Shimon Sim wrote:

I have uninstalled 210 build.
I hope you realize that there are a lot of people using R# with ASP.NET and
lack of some kind of basic testing for ASP kills EAP for ASP project - we
can't do anything with this.
I have machine that has less then 1 GB of memory. So it due to R# the memory
usage of VS.NET (2003 or 2005) triples it slows down the whole machine.
Refreshing ASP.NET pages in design mode takes some resources and every time
IDE needs to refresh page (and that happens quite often) you are stuck
waiting.

Then I find that there is not Reformat... support of ASP.NET pages. (I
reported it before you probably didn't have chance to fix in 210) This is
the feature that I use the most.
So what is left. I understand that there are a lot of features that R# has
that are great but when I am working with IDE I feel faster without R# and I
am waiting for a stable build that will not kill performance of the whole
machine.

"Sergey V. Coox (JetBrains)" <qx@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:dmpaq3$hdu$1@is.intellij.net...

>>Shimon,
>>
>>The problems with ASP are mostly caused by the fact, that we have no
>>development in ASP. And also, there are number of features still not
>>implemented due to our internal reasons. Problem reports with code pieces,
>>that illustrate them are highly appreciated.
>>--
>>Sergey V. Coox
>>JetBrains, Inc
>>http://www.jetbrains.com
>>"Develop with pleasure!"
>>


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I totally agree with Mike.
Sorry, JetBrain, but as much as I loved Version 1.5, as much I don't like
working with a Visual Studio 2005 with Resharper installed on.
I'm working now with the Beta build 210 for two weeks and I get sick of all
the bugs I experience hour by hour. All the issues
Mike pointed out, I experienced, too. And I could add a lot more. Yes I
know, its beta, but maybe as the users of 1.5 we were just expecting
the same quality.

But the thing I miss the most, is information. I guess it's just kind of
unfair, how you treat us early testers. Day after day you get plenty of
feedback from us,
but all we get back, is ... nothing?
On your download page
(http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/ReSharper/Download) I see the
same information for weeks.
Somewhere on your page I read the release will be in autumn. I guess, this
passed already...
When will be the next build? Where is a list of bugs? What are you DOING
right now? Do you plan to realease a build this year,
are there any plans at all?

Don't get me wrong, I know software projects are complex, get delayed, are
unpredictable. You did a GREAT job with the 1.5 version,
but please inform us, whats going on. People get pissed off, you are on the
best way to loose a very good reputation.
Read this newsgroup, most of the people are not happy. Keep them informed,
and they understand and even help you.

Information is extremly important!

Daniel



"Mike Scott" <mike@mikescommunity.com> wrote in message
news:dm4b0j$n3v$1@is.intellij.net...

I've been using the ReSharper 2 EAP for VS2005 and VS2003 since it was
available. I'm a big fan of ReSharper and was sorely missing it for the
early betas of VS2005 so please bear this in mind.

>

Today I've uninstalled the ReSharper 2.0 EAP on both VS2003 and VS2005. I
was using the latest EAP build 210. In the last few builds it seems to
been getting more and more buggy, to the extent now that it's becoming
unusable.

>

Most of the features don't work:

>

  • Many refactorings tend to hang VS, with the processor pegged at near

100% - not good as this can lose work. So I stopped using refactorings
altogether.

>

  • Intellisense just keeps saying no suggestions and doesn't pop up on "."

any more - I have to use the Ctrl-Space and its variants. Since it doesn't
give any info, though, I switched back to VS intellisense.

>

  • Exception tracking dialog pops up very frequently and tends to get into

a loop with new exceptions, even if the ignore option is ticked. This
requires killing VS, again losing work.

>

  • I have to delete the ReSharper cache before loading a solution or I get

exceptions immediately in many cases.

>

At the same time each new EAP release seems to add additional refactoring
and other new features.

>

My plea is: please focus on improving the EAP stability before adding any
new features. I'll try each new EAP build but if stability doesn't
improve, I'll have to uninstall immediately.

>

I read the recent posting by someone making similar comments and he was
flamed. I suppose I'll get flamed too, but I do sincerely want to help to
make ReSharper 2.0 a great product. The only way to do this is to use it
for real work. You can't dogfood by just having a quick taste of a new
build - you have to use it for real work. So please take these comments as
positive suggestions on the current development focus.

>

Cheers,

>

MikeS.



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Hello Daniel,

while I agree with you on some points, especially when it comes
to reliability of the current EAP builds, I have some comments. Please
see them below.

I totally agree with Mike.
Sorry, JetBrain, but as much as I loved Version 1.5, as much I don't
like
working with a Visual Studio 2005 with Resharper installed on.
I'm working now with the Beta build 210 for two weeks and I get sick
of all
the bugs I experience hour by hour. All the issues
Mike pointed out, I experienced, too. And I could add a lot more. Yes
I
know, its beta, but maybe as the users of 1.5 we were just expecting
the same quality.


It's an unfair and unreasonable expectation - you can hardly expect the
same level of quality
from EAP builds (which are NOT even Beta) as was in the released product.

But the thing I miss the most, is information. I guess it's just kind
of
unfair, how you treat us early testers. Day after day you get plenty
of
feedback from us,
but all we get back, is ... nothing?
On your download page
(http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/ReSharper/Download) I see
the
same information for weeks.


What's wrong with it? Do you expect a download page to update on a daily
basis?
We don't put CNN news there.
We update it when we publish a new build, and this page reflects the current
state-of-the-art.

Somewhere on your page I read the release will be in autumn. I guess,
this
passed already...
When will be the next build?


We usually try to inform about this via newsgroups. Although it doesn't really
work well and
we're trying hard to make build publishing date more predictable.

>Where is a list of bugs?

As always, it is in the tracker (http://www.intellij.net/tracker/ReSharper).
A problem is that we are getting an overwhelming amount of
duplicated exception reports, and we simply don't manage to process them
all and update their status.
We're now attempting to improve exception submitting system so that fewer
duplicated requests will be produced.

>What are you DOING right now?

Sorry I don't understand this question. We have a development plan, and we're
making our best
to follow it.

Do you plan to realease a build this year,
are there any plans at all?


The next build will likely be published on the next working day. If we don't
manage to do that,
we'll publish an updated EAP license for the current EAP build.

Don't get me wrong, I know software projects are complex, get delayed,
are
unpredictable. You did a GREAT job with the 1.5 version,
but please inform us, whats going on. People get pissed off, you are
on the
best way to loose a very good reputation.
Read this newsgroup, most of the people are not happy.


I'm reading this newsgroup and I'd rather say that people have many problems
which they report.
Their bug reports are indeed the most useful kind of messages appearing in
this newsgroup.

Keep them
informed,
and they understand and even help you.
Information is extremly important!


I cannot bug agree with you.


Daniel


As a final note, I remember very well the EAP for 1.0, the quality of those
EAP builds and their
overall stability. In 2.0 the whole product was redesigned and many parts
of it were completely
rewritten. Given the current size of the system (which is may be 6-7 times
larger than 1.0), I'd
say that what you observe now is not unusual.


0
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And what do you want me to do with pre-beta. Create new project; create on
page play around with it and submit bugs and uninstall it??
I thought that EAP was created to get feed back from users (that what I did
in my previous post) so with the product that we have now development team
gets this kind of feedback.
If that what they expect - fine with me I will wait for the product to get
more stable.
See some more comments lower.
Thank you,
Shimon.
"Ryan Cammer" <ryancammer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dmr1lh$uqg$1@is.intellij.net...

Here we go again....

>

Shimon, do you realize that this is pre-beta software??? When you develop
software, do you even allow your users to test pre-beta? When I do, I only
provide a handful of people with access, and let them know that not all of
the functionality is present.

That is fine. Everything depends on product. If product is aimed to increase
my productivity my feedback - currently it doesn't.

>These guys at JetBrains are super-cool for providing early access to R#.
>And I'm sure that they know that people are freaking out because all of the
>features and functionality are NOT present in their PRE-BETA app.

May be or may be not. I just wanted to point out that ASP.NET project lack
testing as they admited themselfs. I let them know what kind of experience
we get.
>You're preaching to the choir to Sergey and Valentin.

I am not preaching I am providing feedback.


>

Just give these some time and breathing room.


If they want breathing room they can stop shipping new builds; they don't
have to look here and ...
They obviously want feedback. That what we are doing.

>

-Ryan Cammer

>
>
>

Shimon Sim wrote:

>> I have uninstalled 210 build.
>> I hope you realize that there are a lot of people using R# with ASP.NET
>> and lack of some kind of basic testing for ASP kills EAP for ASP
>> project - we can't do anything with this.
>> I have machine that has less then 1 GB of memory. So it due to R# the
>> memory usage of VS.NET (2003 or 2005) triples it slows down the whole
>> machine. Refreshing ASP.NET pages in design mode takes some resources and
>> every time IDE needs to refresh page (and that happens quite often) you
>> are stuck waiting.
>>
>> Then I find that there is not Reformat... support of ASP.NET pages. (I
>> reported it before you probably didn't have chance to fix in 210) This is
>> the feature that I use the most.
>> So what is left. I understand that there are a lot of features that R#
>> has that are great but when I am working with IDE I feel faster without
>> R# and I am waiting for a stable build that will not kill performance of
>> the whole machine.
>>
>> "Sergey V. Coox (JetBrains)" <qx@intellij.com> wrote in message
>> news:dmpaq3$hdu$1@is.intellij.net...
>>
>>>Shimon,
>>>
>>>The problems with ASP are mostly caused by the fact, that we have no
>>>development in ASP. And also, there are number of features still not
>>>implemented due to our internal reasons. Problem reports with code
>>>pieces, that illustrate them are highly appreciated.
>>>--
>>>Sergey V. Coox
>>>JetBrains, Inc
>>>http://www.jetbrains.com
>>>"Develop with pleasure!"
>>>
>>
>>

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May be JetBrains can put together some letter (or what ever) to let us know
what EAP testes should expect and do.
Should we try to avoid double error requests - they do popup multiple times
a day.
We should work not more then 30 min with the product.
What do you expect from EAP?
When shouldn't EAP builds used?
We don't know what to expect. So let us know. Please.
Thank you,
Shimon

"Dmitry Shaporenkov (JetBrains)" <dsha@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:c8a894d9c0b918c7c666a0af2d89@news.intellij.net...

Hello Daniel,

>

while I agree with you on some points, especially when it comes
to reliability of the current EAP builds, I have some comments. Please
see them below.

>
>> I totally agree with Mike.
>> Sorry, JetBrain, but as much as I loved Version 1.5, as much I don't
>> like
>> working with a Visual Studio 2005 with Resharper installed on.
>> I'm working now with the Beta build 210 for two weeks and I get sick
>> of all
>> the bugs I experience hour by hour. All the issues
>> Mike pointed out, I experienced, too. And I could add a lot more. Yes
>> I
>> know, its beta, but maybe as the users of 1.5 we were just expecting
>> the same quality.
>

It's an unfair and unreasonable expectation - you can hardly expect the
same level of quality from EAP builds (which are NOT even Beta) as was in
the released product.

>> But the thing I miss the most, is information. I guess it's just kind
>> of
>> unfair, how you treat us early testers. Day after day you get plenty
>> of
>> feedback from us,
>> but all we get back, is ... nothing?
>> On your download page
>> (http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/ReSharper/Download) I see
>> the
>> same information for weeks.
>

What's wrong with it? Do you expect a download page to update on a daily
basis?
We don't put CNN news there.
We update it when we publish a new build, and this page reflects the
current state-of-the-art.

>
>> Somewhere on your page I read the release will be in autumn. I guess,
>> this
>> passed already...
>> When will be the next build?
>

We usually try to inform about this via newsgroups. Although it doesn't
really work well and
we're trying hard to make build publishing date more predictable.

>
>>Where is a list of bugs?
>

As always, it is in the tracker
(http://www.intellij.net/tracker/ReSharper). A problem is that we are
getting an overwhelming amount of duplicated exception reports, and we
simply don't manage to process them all and update their status. We're now
attempting to improve exception submitting system so that fewer duplicated
requests will be produced.

>
>>What are you DOING right now?
>

Sorry I don't understand this question. We have a development plan, and
we're making our best
to follow it.

>
>> Do you plan to realease a build this year,
>> are there any plans at all?
>

The next build will likely be published on the next working day. If we
don't manage to do that,
we'll publish an updated EAP license for the current EAP build.

>
>> Don't get me wrong, I know software projects are complex, get delayed,
>> are
>> unpredictable. You did a GREAT job with the 1.5 version,
>> but please inform us, whats going on. People get pissed off, you are
>> on the
>> best way to loose a very good reputation.
>> Read this newsgroup, most of the people are not happy.
>

I'm reading this newsgroup and I'd rather say that people have many
problems which they report. Their bug reports are indeed the most useful
kind of messages appearing in this newsgroup.

>
>> Keep them
>> informed,
>> and they understand and even help you.
>> Information is extremly important!
>

I cannot bug agree with you.

>
>>
>> Daniel
>

As a final note, I remember very well the EAP for 1.0, the quality of
those EAP builds and their
overall stability. In 2.0 the whole product was redesigned and many parts
of it were completely
rewritten. Given the current size of the system (which is may be 6-7 times
larger than 1.0), I'd say that what you observe now is not unusual.

>



0
Comment actions Permalink

Hello Shimon,


Regards,
Dmitry Shaporenkov
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

May be JetBrains can put together some letter (or what ever) to let us
know
what EAP testes should expect and do.
Should we try to avoid double error requests - they do popup multiple
times
a day.


This is merely a problem of exception submitter that it doesn't merge
similar requests. We're working on it.
Nothing can be done on the user side, as duplicated requests can be created
by different users.


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Comment actions Permalink

I have CHOSEN to install EAP build # 210 and nobody OBLIGATED me to install
one of the EAP builds so with al do respect if you don't like the EAP builds
uninstall them and go back to version # 1.5.1 but please please stop whining
about it already.

Gabriel Lozano-Morán
MCSD .NET
Real Software
http://www.realdn.net
http://www.realsoftware.be


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Comment actions Permalink

Gabriel,
I could not agree more. If you ever come to L.A., I'll buy you a beer.

-Ryan

Gabriel Lozano-Morán wrote:

I have CHOSEN to install EAP build # 210 and nobody OBLIGATED me to install
one of the EAP builds so with al do respect if you don't like the EAP builds
uninstall them and go back to version # 1.5.1 but please please stop whining
about it already.

Gabriel Lozano-Morán
MCSD .NET
Real Software
http://www.realdn.net
http://www.realsoftware.be

0
Comment actions Permalink

OK
"Gabriel Lozano-Morán" <gabriel@no-spam.org> wrote in message
news:dmuc7m$1bq$1@is.intellij.net...
>I have CHOSEN to install EAP build # 210 and nobody OBLIGATED me to install
>one of the EAP builds so with al do respect if you don't like the EAP
>builds uninstall them and go back to version # 1.5.1 but please please stop
>whining about it already.
>

Gabriel Lozano-Morán
MCSD .NET
Real Software
http://www.realdn.net
http://www.realsoftware.be



0
Comment actions Permalink

Then I find that there is not Reformat... support of ASP.NET pages. (I
reported it before you probably didn't have chance to fix in 210) This
is
the feature that I use the most.


Reformatting ASP.NET pages is a feature which is not easy to implement and
it is not planned for 2.0. It's absence is not due to lack of testing.

So what is left. I understand that there are a lot of features that R#
has
that are great but when I am working with IDE I feel faster without R#
and I
am waiting for a stable build that will not kill performance of the
whole
machine.


Performance and memory usage should become much better in one of the nearest
builds. It's not ASP-specific.
Are there any other problems with ASP support? We would appreciate such reports
very much!

Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

I have uninstalled 210 build.
I hope you realize that there are a lot of people using R# with
ASP.NET and
lack of some kind of basic testing for ASP kills EAP for ASP project -
we
can't do anything with this.
I have machine that has less then 1 GB of memory. So it due to R# the
memory
usage of VS.NET (2003 or 2005) triples it slows down the whole
machine.
Refreshing ASP.NET pages in design mode takes some resources and every
time
IDE needs to refresh page (and that happens quite often) you are stuck
waiting.
Then I find that there is not Reformat... support of ASP.NET pages. (I
reported it before you probably didn't have chance to fix in 210) This
is
the feature that I use the most.
So what is left. I understand that there are a lot of features that R#
has
that are great but when I am working with IDE I feel faster without R#
and I
am waiting for a stable build that will not kill performance of the
whole
machine.
"Sergey V. Coox (JetBrains)" <qx@intellij.com> wrote in message
news:dmpaq3$hdu$1@is.intellij.net...

>> Shimon,
>>
>> The problems with ASP are mostly caused by the fact, that we have no
>> development in ASP. And also, there are number of features still not
>> implemented due to our internal reasons. Problem reports with code
>> pieces,
>> that illustrate them are highly appreciated.
>> --
>> Sergey V. Coox
>> JetBrains, Inc
>> http://www.jetbrains.com
>> "Develop with pleasure!"


0
Comment actions Permalink

Mike pointed out, I experienced, too. And I could add a lot more. Yes
I
know, its beta, but maybe as the users of 1.5 we were just expecting
the same quality.


ReSharper 2.0 RELEASED version will have quality not lower than that of 1.5
(I hope so).

Somewhere on your page I read the release will be in autumn. I guess,
this
passed already...


Updated. Thanks for pointing that.

When will be the next build?


That's not easy to predict.

Let me first explain some parts of our internal process. We have a continuous
integration system which runs on the server and continuously builds ReSharper
builds by the current state of the source code (and also runs unit-tests).
So we have lot of internal ReSharper builds. Time to time someone in the
development team installs the most recent internal build of ReSharper and
tries to do his job with it. If he can do his job with this build then somebody
else also tries to install a new build and so on. Usually we publish a new
build when the whole development team has switched to the recent build.

When there is an issue which prevents normal use of the most recent build
(and so prevents publishing it to the EAP) then we usually open a request
in the tracker with special "StopBuild" priority. So inspecting the tracker
you often can find the issues that prevent us from publishing the EAP build.
(But not always because sometimes the build is simply broken - unit tests
do not pass or even the installation is not built by some reason.)

We try to plan publishing the EAP build (e.g. not put dangerous changes right
before the expected EAP build) but it's not easy to follow the plan.

Do you plan to realease a build this year,
are there any plans at all?


Do you mean a RELEASE, not a build? The release is planned for the beginning
of the Febrary.

Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

I totally agree with Mike.
Sorry, JetBrain, but as much as I loved Version 1.5, as much I don't
like
working with a Visual Studio 2005 with Resharper installed on.
I'm working now with the Beta build 210 for two weeks and I get sick
of all
the bugs I experience hour by hour. All the issues
Mike pointed out, I experienced, too. And I could add a lot more. Yes
I
know, its beta, but maybe as the users of 1.5 we were just expecting
the same quality.
But the thing I miss the most, is information. I guess it's just kind
of
unfair, how you treat us early testers. Day after day you get plenty
of
feedback from us,
but all we get back, is ... nothing?
On your download page
(http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/ReSharper/Download) I see
the
same information for weeks.
Somewhere on your page I read the release will be in autumn. I guess,
this
passed already...
When will be the next build? Where is a list of bugs? What are you
DOING
right now? Do you plan to realease a build this year,
are there any plans at all?
Don't get me wrong, I know software projects are complex, get delayed,
are
unpredictable. You did a GREAT job with the 1.5 version,
but please inform us, whats going on. People get pissed off, you are
on the
best way to loose a very good reputation.
Read this newsgroup, most of the people are not happy. Keep them
informed,
and they understand and even help you.
Information is extremly important!

Daniel

"Mike Scott" <mike@mikescommunity.com> wrote in message
news:dm4b0j$n3v$1@is.intellij.net...

>> I've been using the ReSharper 2 EAP for VS2005 and VS2003 since it
>> was available. I'm a big fan of ReSharper and was sorely missing it
>> for the early betas of VS2005 so please bear this in mind.
>>
>> Today I've uninstalled the ReSharper 2.0 EAP on both VS2003 and
>> VS2005. I was using the latest EAP build 210. In the last few builds
>> it seems to been getting more and more buggy, to the extent now that
>> it's becoming unusable.
>>
>> Most of the features don't work:
>>
>> * Many refactorings tend to hang VS, with the processor pegged at
>> near 100% - not good as this can lose work. So I stopped using
>> refactorings altogether.
>>
>> * Intellisense just keeps saying no suggestions and doesn't pop up on
>> "." any more - I have to use the Ctrl-Space and its variants. Since
>> it doesn't give any info, though, I switched back to VS intellisense.
>>
>> * Exception tracking dialog pops up very frequently and tends to get
>> into a loop with new exceptions, even if the ignore option is ticked.
>> This requires killing VS, again losing work.
>>
>> * I have to delete the ReSharper cache before loading a solution or I
>> get exceptions immediately in many cases.
>>
>> At the same time each new EAP release seems to add additional
>> refactoring and other new features.
>>
>> My plea is: please focus on improving the EAP stability before adding
>> any new features. I'll try each new EAP build but if stability
>> doesn't improve, I'll have to uninstall immediately.
>>
>> I read the recent posting by someone making similar comments and he
>> was flamed. I suppose I'll get flamed too, but I do sincerely want to
>> help to make ReSharper 2.0 a great product. The only way to do this
>> is to use it for real work. You can't dogfood by just having a quick
>> taste of a new build - you have to use it for real work. So please
>> take these comments as positive suggestions on the current
>> development focus.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> MikeS.
>>


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Thank you. I thought to give up posting.
I will give more feed back after next build.
About reformatting. We had reformatting for aspx.cs files in 1.6. May be we
can still have it for 2.0? (I just don't know what changed for code behind
files from formatting point of view)
Thank you,
Shimon.


"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:3fdb29a69a9f98c7c7ad586d86e2@news.intellij.net...
>> Then I find that there is not Reformat... support of ASP.NET pages. (I
>> reported it before you probably didn't have chance to fix in 210) This
>> is
>> the feature that I use the most.
>

Reformatting ASP.NET pages is a feature which is not easy to implement and
it is not planned for 2.0. It's absence is not due to lack of testing.

>
>> So what is left. I understand that there are a lot of features that R#
>> has
>> that are great but when I am working with IDE I feel faster without R#
>> and I
>> am waiting for a stable build that will not kill performance of the
>> whole
>> machine.
>

Performance and memory usage should become much better in one of the
nearest builds. It's not ASP-specific.
Are there any other problems with ASP support? We would appreciate such
reports very much!

>

Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

>
>> I have uninstalled 210 build.
>> I hope you realize that there are a lot of people using R# with
>> ASP.NET and
>> lack of some kind of basic testing for ASP kills EAP for ASP project -
>> we
>> can't do anything with this.
>> I have machine that has less then 1 GB of memory. So it due to R# the
>> memory
>> usage of VS.NET (2003 or 2005) triples it slows down the whole
>> machine.
>> Refreshing ASP.NET pages in design mode takes some resources and every
>> time
>> IDE needs to refresh page (and that happens quite often) you are stuck
>> waiting.
>> Then I find that there is not Reformat... support of ASP.NET pages. (I
>> reported it before you probably didn't have chance to fix in 210) This
>> is
>> the feature that I use the most.
>> So what is left. I understand that there are a lot of features that R#
>> has
>> that are great but when I am working with IDE I feel faster without R#
>> and I
>> am waiting for a stable build that will not kill performance of the
>> whole
>> machine.
>> "Sergey V. Coox (JetBrains)" <qx@intellij.com> wrote in message
>> news:dmpaq3$hdu$1@is.intellij.net...
>>
>>> Shimon,
>>>
>>> The problems with ASP are mostly caused by the fact, that we have no
>>> development in ASP. And also, there are number of features still not
>>> implemented due to our internal reasons. Problem reports with code
>>> pieces,
>>> that illustrate them are highly appreciated.
>>> --
>>> Sergey V. Coox
>>> JetBrains, Inc
>>> http://www.jetbrains.com
>>> "Develop with pleasure!"
>



0
Comment actions Permalink

Shimon Sim wrote:

Thank you. I thought to give up posting.
I will give more feed back after next build.
About reformatting. We had reformatting for aspx.cs files in 1.6. May be we
can still have it for 2.0? (I just don't know what changed for code behind
files from formatting point of view)


Reformatting should certainly work for code-behind C# files. Please
submit a request if it does not. Valentin meant the .aspx pages.

Friendly,
Dmitry

Thank you,
Shimon.


"Valentin Kipiatkov (JetBrains)" <valentin@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:3fdb29a69a9f98c7c7ad586d86e2@news.intellij.net...

>>> Then I find that there is not Reformat... support of ASP.NET pages. (I
>>> reported it before you probably didn't have chance to fix in 210) This
>>> is
>>> the feature that I use the most.
>> Reformatting ASP.NET pages is a feature which is not easy to implement and
>> it is not planned for 2.0. It's absence is not due to lack of testing.
>>
>>> So what is left. I understand that there are a lot of features that R#
>>> has
>>> that are great but when I am working with IDE I feel faster without R#
>>> and I
>>> am waiting for a stable build that will not kill performance of the
>>> whole
>>> machine.
>> Performance and memory usage should become much better in one of the
>> nearest builds. It's not ASP-specific.
>> Are there any other problems with ASP support? We would appreciate such
>> reports very much!
>>
>> Valentin Kipiatkov
>> Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
>> JetBrains, Inc
>> http://www.jetbrains.com
>> "Develop with pleasure!"
>>
>>> I have uninstalled 210 build.
>>> I hope you realize that there are a lot of people using R# with
>>> ASP.NET and
>>> lack of some kind of basic testing for ASP kills EAP for ASP project -
>>> we
>>> can't do anything with this.
>>> I have machine that has less then 1 GB of memory. So it due to R# the
>>> memory
>>> usage of VS.NET (2003 or 2005) triples it slows down the whole
>>> machine.
>>> Refreshing ASP.NET pages in design mode takes some resources and every
>>> time
>>> IDE needs to refresh page (and that happens quite often) you are stuck
>>> waiting.
>>> Then I find that there is not Reformat... support of ASP.NET pages. (I
>>> reported it before you probably didn't have chance to fix in 210) This
>>> is
>>> the feature that I use the most.
>>> So what is left. I understand that there are a lot of features that R#
>>> has
>>> that are great but when I am working with IDE I feel faster without R#
>>> and I
>>> am waiting for a stable build that will not kill performance of the
>>> whole
>>> machine.
>>> "Sergey V. Coox (JetBrains)" <qx@intellij.com> wrote in message
>>> news:dmpaq3$hdu$1@is.intellij.net...
>>>
>>>> Shimon,
>>>>
>>>> The problems with ASP are mostly caused by the fact, that we have no
>>>> development in ASP. And also, there are number of features still not
>>>> implemented due to our internal reasons. Problem reports with code
>>>> pieces,
>>>> that illustrate them are highly appreciated.
>>>> --
>>>> Sergey V. Coox
>>>> JetBrains, Inc
>>>> http://www.jetbrains.com
>>>> "Develop with pleasure!"
>>




--
Dmitry Lomov
Senior Software Developer
JetBrains Inc.
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop With Pleasure!"

0

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