[219] First impressions

In short: reverting back to 218.

- slow start-up
- VS is absolutely not responsive during load solution, even with R#
processing in the background.
- many hangs with 100% cpu usage.
- parsing web sites is worse than 218.

Please pay more attention to web site projects. The problems are not
decreasing in number, only changing form build to build.

Gr,
Erwin


13 comments
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Erwin,

Could You describe more precisely the problems You are experiencing? What
version of VS do You use?
How big Your project is?

- slow start-up
- VS is absolutely not responsive during load solution, even with R#
processing in the background.

How long does it take. What happens if turn R# off before loading solution?

- many hangs with 100% cpu usage.

Could You attach a CLRDebugger or WindDBG, break the process and send as a
stacktrace?

- parsing web sites is worse than 218.

What's wrong? What became worse?

--
Sergey V. Coox
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


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See calls 18178 and 18180.

Note: whenever I have specific problems, I will make a request providing you
with the details. I only use this newsgroup for general impressions and
problems I encounter.

>> - parsing web sites is worse than 218.

What's wrong? What became worse?

In general: asp.net is much more than C# and some framework classes. It adds
among others:
- lots of (declarative) syntactic sugar: meta:... , , with Bind, Eval, Container or whatever within it. - string based references to types and properties (e.g. ObjectDataSource.DataObjectTypeName and ObjectDataSource.SelectMethod) - strong typed resources (not sure if this is asp.net specific) - auto-event-wire-up, meaning that private methods may be called without this being clear to R# (see e.g. calls: 18155, 18160, 18167, 17994, 18189, 17959, 18004, 18041, 18040) I guess that this makes life much harder for you guys, but to be useful in web site development, R# must be able to recognise all this asp.net stuff. Success, Erwin "Sergey V. Coox (JetBrains)" ]]> schreef in bericht
news:dtckm8$vb$1@is.intellij.net...

Erwin,

>

Could You describe more precisely the problems You are experiencing? What
version of VS do You use?
How big Your project is?

>> - slow start-up
>> - VS is absolutely not responsive during load solution, even with R#
>> processing in the background.

How long does it take. What happens if turn R# off before loading
solution?

>> - many hangs with 100% cpu usage.

Could You attach a CLRDebugger or WindDBG, break the process and send as a
stacktrace?


>> - parsing web sites is worse than 218.

What's wrong? What became worse?

>

--
Sergey V. Coox
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"



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Erwin,

See calls 18178 and 18180.

Thanks a lot. Unfortunately, the stack trace is quite useless, the bug with
asp:templateField I've just fixed, the fix will be included into the next
build.

Note: whenever I have specific problems, I will make a request providing
you with the details. I only use this newsgroup for general impressions
and problems I encounter.

I see. Thanks a lot for Your feedback.

- lots of (declarative) syntactic sugar: meta:... <Columns>, <Fields>,
<%# %> with Bind, Eval, Container or whatever within it.

It's partially implemented, all the unresolved items are bugs that should be
reported and fixed ASAP.

- string based references to types and properties (e.g.
ObjectDataSource.DataObjectTypeName and ObjectDataSource.SelectMethod)

Could You describe it in more details?

- strong typed resources (not sure if this is asp.net specific)

This is already implemented (in build 218 or 219 - I'm not sure)

- auto-event-wire-up, meaning that private methods may be called without

Unfortunately, this is a problem for current R# architecture, the current
workaround is to make them protected or suppress the warning.

I guess that this makes life much harder for you guys, but to be useful in
web site development, R# must be able to recognize all this asp.net stuff.

Absolutely ;)


--
Sergey V. Coox
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


0
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FYI this is the first build I have tried since 215 or so, since there
were so many complaints. Things seem to be running smoothly for the last
hour (knock on wood) so maybe it will finally reply 213 for me. Ran into
once exception, I submitted to the tracker.

-Greg

Erwin Derksen wrote:

In short: reverting back to 218.

- slow start-up
- VS is absolutely not responsive during load solution, even with R#
processing in the background.
- many hangs with 100% cpu usage.
- parsing web sites is worse than 218.

Please pay more attention to web site projects. The problems are not
decreasing in number, only changing form build to build.

Gr,
Erwin

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Wrote that too quickly, let's try again :)

FYI this is the first build I have tried since 215 or so, since there
were so many complaints. Things seem to be running smoothly for the last
hour (knock on wood) so maybe it will finally replace 213 for me.
Ran into one exception, I submitted it to the tracker.

Greg Fodor wrote:

FYI this is the first build I have tried since 215 or so, since there
were so many complaints. Things seem to be running smoothly for the last
hour (knock on wood) so maybe it will finally reply 213 for me. Ran into
once exception, I submitted to the tracker.

-Greg

Erwin Derksen wrote:

>> In short: reverting back to 218.
>>
>> - slow start-up
>> - VS is absolutely not responsive during load solution, even with R#
>> processing in the background.
>> - many hangs with 100% cpu usage.
>> - parsing web sites is worse than 218.
>>
>> Please pay more attention to web site projects. The problems are not
>> decreasing in number, only changing form build to build.
>>
>> Gr,
>> Erwin
>>
>>

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I'm going to add my own first impressions here:

1) Startup still takes WAY too long. There's WAY too long of a pause where
VS is unresponsive before the "Applying Changes" dialog pops up. There's
WAY too long of a delay when starting up with no project loaded (the splash
screen just stays there staring at me for almost a minute, whereas without
resharper it's just a couple of seconds).

2) The new "parsing file xxx" display at the lower right is ... odd. It
overlays the scroll bar, spills into the text editor region, and just looks
strange.

3) My project loads! Sure, it takes way too long, and it strikes me that
way too many files are being parsed in the website, but at least it loads
and doesn't crash! That's a definite improvement.

I'll work with it a little and see how it goes, but I do want to make a
point that startup time (both empty with no solution, and with solutions)
seems to take a lot longer than a lot of my coworkers would consider
acceptable at this point.

One issue is that our application dynamically generates ascx files (with
long GUIDs as file names) that are only used at runtime, and each run will
potentially generate a new versions of the files. These files are quite
numerous and should never be parsed by resharper (except MAYBE if we're
debugging and manage to put a breakpoint in one of these session code files,
which is difficult enough, it might be nice to parse it at load time only).
But I'm not sure how to tell Resharper "Don't bother with these files"...
but it sure seems to me we're going to need some way to tell resharper that.
Cutting out just these temporary files would elimiante over 600 files
Resharper is currently parsing for no good reason.

"Erwin Derksen" <dachthetniet@onbekend.nl> wrote in message
news:dtciok$m6m$1@is.intellij.net...

In short: reverting back to 218.

>

- slow start-up
- VS is absolutely not responsive during load solution, even with R#
processing in the background.
- many hangs with 100% cpu usage.
- parsing web sites is worse than 218.

>

Please pay more attention to web site projects. The problems are not
decreasing in number, only changing form build to build.

>

Gr,
Erwin

>



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A brief addendum to my observations:

I've experienced the problem others have reported with Resharper suddenly
forgetting about or losing track of one of my project DLLs, resulting in
tons of red-lines and errors with unknown symbols. Closing and reopening VS
fixed the problem. I have no idea what caused it though (I think it was a
"build this project" that had to build some dependent projects).
Interesting to note that only one project seemed affected. Other projects
worked fine. And the "missing symbols" involved one of the dependent
projects that was built. Strange. I'll try and see if there's anything
reproducable, but I wanted to make mention that it's obviously a probem
that's pretty easy to fall into.


"Paul Bradshaw" <pbradshaw@advsol.com> wrote in message
news:dtcv5v$2hc$1@is.intellij.net...

I'm going to add my own first impressions here:

>

1) Startup still takes WAY too long. There's WAY too long of a pause
where VS is unresponsive before the "Applying Changes" dialog pops up.
There's WAY too long of a delay when starting up with no project loaded
(the splash screen just stays there staring at me for almost a minute,
whereas without resharper it's just a couple of seconds).

>

2) The new "parsing file xxx" display at the lower right is ... odd. It
overlays the scroll bar, spills into the text editor region, and just
looks strange.

>

3) My project loads! Sure, it takes way too long, and it strikes me that
way too many files are being parsed in the website, but at least it loads
and doesn't crash! That's a definite improvement.

>

I'll work with it a little and see how it goes, but I do want to make a
point that startup time (both empty with no solution, and with solutions)
seems to take a lot longer than a lot of my coworkers would consider
acceptable at this point.

>

One issue is that our application dynamically generates ascx files (with
long GUIDs as file names) that are only used at runtime, and each run will
potentially generate a new versions of the files. These files are quite
numerous and should never be parsed by resharper (except MAYBE if we're
debugging and manage to put a breakpoint in one of these session code
files, which is difficult enough, it might be nice to parse it at load
time only). But I'm not sure how to tell Resharper "Don't bother with
these files"... but it sure seems to me we're going to need some way to
tell resharper that. Cutting out just these temporary files would
elimiante over 600 files Resharper is currently parsing for no good
reason.

>

"Erwin Derksen" <dachthetniet@onbekend.nl> wrote in message
news:dtciok$m6m$1@is.intellij.net...

>> In short: reverting back to 218.
>>
>> - slow start-up
>> - VS is absolutely not responsive during load solution, even with R#
>> processing in the background.
>> - many hangs with 100% cpu usage.
>> - parsing web sites is worse than 218.
>>
>> Please pay more attention to web site projects. The problems are not
>> decreasing in number, only changing form build to build.
>>
>> Gr,
>> Erwin
>>
>>
>



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1) Startup still takes WAY too long.


How long? We are currently have ~15-20 sec pause at startup, and we are
working to eliminate it

2) The new "parsing file xxx" display at the lower right is ... odd. It
overlays the scroll bar, spills into the text editor region, and just
looks strange.


We will improve the background progress indicator

3) My project loads! Sure, it takes way too long, and it strikes me that
way too many files are being parsed in the website, but at least it loads
and doesn't crash! That's a definite improvement.


Again, how long does it take at your computer?
And note, that the second load should be much faster

One issue is that our application dynamically generates ascx files (with
long GUIDs as file names) that are only used at runtime, and each run will
potentially generate a new versions of the files.


Are these files included into project?

--
Eugene Pasynkov
Developer
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


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Let me add my own immpressions.

(VS 2005, quite large solution [50+ projects, mixed types, all c#, some 2700+ .cs files).

Reverting to 218.

Startup times have been covered very well be others.

Live Templates have a get number of problems. I have been using the same user templates for over three weeks, but with 219 they mess up the formating of existing code, have issues with the Constants Values, lose track of imput parameters, etc. Totally unusable.

User entered Surround With templates. See above.

Clobbers undo totally.

Hit enter to go to new line, get three new lines and lose smart indenting.

Ongoing problem from 218 with large solutions not finding references to other projects in solution.

David

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>> 1) Startup still takes WAY too long.
>

How long? We are currently have ~15-20 sec pause at startup, and we are
working to eliminate it


On a WARM start up (that is, load Visual Studio 2005, load my solution,
close Visual studio, and then time starting up Visual Studio again), it's a
full 15-20 seconds to start up. I'm glad you're looking to eliminate this,
as it's a full 7 times longer than normal warm startup time, easily.

>> 2) The new "parsing file xxx" display at the lower right is ... odd. It
>> overlays the scroll bar, spills into the text editor region, and just
>> looks strange.
>

We will improve the background progress indicator


Glad to hear it. I have to say I like it in concept, it's just distracting
and a little off-putting in appearance right now.

>> 3) My project loads! Sure, it takes way too long, and it strikes me that
>> way too many files are being parsed in the website, but at least it loads
>> and doesn't crash! That's a definite improvement.
>

Again, how long does it take at your computer?
And note, that the second load should be much faster


With a WARM startup (as described above, where this is the second time I'm
loading the solution, not having started any other apps in the interim) this
is what I see:

1) A full 20 seconds before the screen repaints to show my solution in
solution explorer and last viewed file in the code editor window

2) A full 20 seconds more before the the "Applying Changes" dialog pops up.
This is psychologically much longer though, because there is NO indication
that anything is happening or going on. The UI is just locked and frozen
and you can't do anything ... though it looks like you should be able to
begin

3) The "Applying Changes" dialog flashes up, and a period of over 10 seconds
of causing all other open app windows to enter a vicious erase/repaint cycle
begins. CPU usage spikes due to all the apps repainting like crazy.

4) Combined with all other pauses, and the parsing of the solution, it's a
full 1 minute and 10 seconds before the solution is fully loaded and parsed
(of course, I could begin typing after the flashing in step 3, which means
some 50 or so seconds into the loading process). This is significantly
longer than a warm load without resharper (which is to be expected), but
this is also a very BEST CASE load time. A cold start has taken me over
five minutes.

>> One issue is that our application dynamically generates ascx files (with
>> long GUIDs as file names) that are only used at runtime, and each run
>> will potentially generate a new versions of the files.
>

Are these files included into project?


Websites don't have "project" files. It just seems to suck up every single
file under the webroot. This is annoying us on so many levels, and we're
looking for ways to restructure our website to play nicer with VS2005 (this
site was developed under VS2003 which had nice project files, and which
played very nice with visual studio)... but this is an issue. And even if
there were a project, no these files would not be part of it. They're
dynamically generated code that is executed at runtime only. There are no
traditional 'source files' for this code (code templates are read from a
database and spit out as needed for some interesting runtime configuration
abilities). Since "websites" have no project files, VS2005 insists on
trying to add these files to source control ... so it's not just Resharper
that I wish I could tell to ignore these files!

If anyone has any suggestions on a better organization of a large website
(the webroot contains lots of dlls and pdbs and other binaries in addition
to these dynamically generated and dynamically compiled sources) so that VS
and Resharper and VSS could all ignore them, I'd love to hear it.



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Paul,

In response to your query for ideas on larger websites...

Not sure if you have had a chance to look at the new web application project for VS2005, but if you haven't it's definitely worth a look. I recently converted a good-sized vs2003 web app to this model and EVERYTHING just works better. Compile times for the website are down to just a couple of seconds from 1+ minutes. You can find more info on Scott Guthrie's blog at http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2006/02/10/437943.aspx

There are a few quirks with this, but they are all easily worked around.

I recently worked with Microsoft PSS on a pretty nasty asp.net 2.0 issue and the engineer I was working with recommended that I switch to the new web appplication projects for anything that is beyond a simple static website.

Hope this helps!

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Sounds great... I'll give it a look. I just hope the JetBriains folks ALSO
give it a look and make sure that Reshaper works fine with it too! :)


"Mike Anderson" <no_mail@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:13015156.1140489908487.JavaMail.javamailuser@localhost...

Paul,

>

In response to your query for ideas on larger websites...

>

Not sure if you have had a chance to look at the new web application
project for VS2005, but if you haven't it's definitely worth a look. I
recently converted a good-sized vs2003 web app to this model and
EVERYTHING just works better. Compile times for the website are down to
just a couple of seconds from 1+ minutes. You can find more info on Scott
Guthrie's blog at
http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2006/02/10/437943.aspx

>

There are a few quirks with this, but they are all easily worked around.

>

I recently worked with Microsoft PSS on a pretty nasty asp.net 2.0 issue
and the engineer I was working with recommended that I switch to the new
web appplication projects for anything that is beyond a simple static
website.

>

Hope this helps!



0
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Have you submitted some of these problems into the tracker? This would help
us a lot to fix them.

Valentin Kipiatkov
Chief Scientist, Vice President of Product Development
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

Let me add my own immpressions.

(VS 2005, quite large solution [50+ projects, mixed types, all c#,
some 2700+ .cs files).

Reverting to 218.

Startup times have been covered very well be others.

Live Templates have a get number of problems. I have been using the
same user templates for over three weeks, but with 219 they mess up
the formating of existing code, have issues with the Constants Values,
lose track of imput parameters, etc. Totally unusable.

User entered Surround With templates. See above.

Clobbers undo totally.

Hit enter to go to new line, get three new lines and lose smart
indenting.

Ongoing problem from 218 with large solutions not finding references
to other projects in solution.

David



0

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