I've had it!

Phillipe, I can well understand some of your frustration with it. I too have found version 4 to be problematical but I also know that's the price I have to pay for being an early adopter. Without users like you and I they'd not know what problems are manifesting. If I read through the posts in the EAP forum I find myself skipping maybe 85% as not being relevant to my needs. To be honest, many of the problems reported go straight over my head and it soon convinces me that I know less about .Net than I thought I did. I am sure that when RS4 becomes official we'll all be the better prepared for it. I have asked them about the roadmap that RS is on and and what point they'll decide to lock it down and commit to distribution. I guess it's a case that some early adopters are discovering new things in .Net which reveal holes in RS that need to be plugged. Like you, it's a painful migration we're on but I'm sure it will be worth it. I think the guys at JetBrains are doing an amazing job considering the complexity of what some people are trying to do. I sometimes feel that they are rolling out features that have dilute interest to many other users. I'd rather they'd commit to 90% robustness now than keep us waiting for the flaky 10% that's causing issues. Then again, I'd rather buy a 100% product, or best as it can be even though I may never use the 10%. As they learn more about what users are trying to do RS will become better for it. I sympathise with your concerns about it. I'm hoping there is an end date when RS4 is put on the shelf. I also get the feeling that their staff who read and respond to our posts really do take on board the syntax problems that are exposing holes in RS4. To be sure, .Net 2008 might not be a quantum leap over 2005 but I think there's enough in 2008 to occupy them for a while to come.

I understand that we can't expect production quality from these pre-EAP builds, but that's not really the issue.

The biggest problem IMHO is that Jetbrains wants to make 4.0 a feature-release, while the majority of the existing users are not waiting for that. They just want C# 3.0 support. I do understand that Jetbrains wants to keep the cash coming in, but I think they underestimate the potential revenue of people upgrading "just to have C# 3.0 support". The way things are going now, they are taking the wrong path, and I am not talking about the pre-EAP builds. People who don't install these 4.0 nightly builds are STILL waiting for a version that will support VS2008. There isn't even a time frame for the release.

I strongly believe that the reason for the ridiculous delays is that Jetbrains got feature-crazy. Nobody wants new features. Everyone wants C# 3.0 support...

I see where you are coming from. I spend 99% of my time in C# robot mode so I can understand that the pursuit of features is not necessarily the best thing for me either. Perhaps they could offer an Express edition? ;)

I agree. Get back to basic with a stable and fast product that does the job.

One simple thing I still miss, is to be able to tell ReSharper not to look
in specific directories in my solution.
Don't spend time on analysing files I know don't have to be analysed !

And stop logging in ReSharper
Logging is good for JetBrains when debugging, but ReSharper on my computer
has to run as fast as possible.



"Philippe Leybaert" <no_reply@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:32398128.35571209059318682.JavaMail.jive@app4.labs.intellij.net...
>I have used every version of R#, and to be honest, I just can't imagine
>having to live without it.
>

Today, I finally uninstalled the latest nightly build of 4.0, after using
several versions of the previous 4.0 builds. I was pleasantly surprised by
the quality of the first 4.0 builds, but every build it got worse up to
the point that it is unusable at this time. The only reason I'm still
using VS2005 for most of my projects is the lack of a decent resharper
build vor VS2008.

>

I don't know what Jetbrains are thinking. I don't think ANYONE cares about
all the fancy new features they're adding to this release. Everyone just
wants C# 3.0 support, nothing more. Let me repeat: nothing more. I bet the
majority of 3.x users are more than willing to pay good money for C# 3.0
support.

>

Let me make a suggestion to Jetbrains: forget about new refactorings and
fancy features. Just implement syntax checking for C# 3.0, and get a
stable version out the door. Version 3.1 was superb, it didn't need any
more features. "Featuritis" is a decease that has killed many great
products, and the way things are going now, R# will be next.

>

You haven't lost me yet as a customer, but I'm sure there are people who
are tired of waiting for 4.0 to be released. After all, how long has
VS2008 been around?

>

I'm very disappointed.

>

-Philippe

I'm sorry to say it but i have to agree
I have used R# many years now, but i think the 4.0 is way to slow and to late VS 2008 come before christmas for MSDN users.

I need refactoring , C# 3.0 support and SPEED nothing else.

Jetbrains has been quiet since the first version, almost all nightly build is worse that the previous one.

Ok folks tell Jetbrains what you feel :(

Ivar Syvertsen

I'm working with R# 4.0 since the very first nightly build. I must say
I'm very happy with it!! There were some builds that had problems with
parallel threads so I stick with build 780 which is very stable.

You are right that C# 3.0 support is the most wanted feature. Maybe
JetBrains thought it was easier to implement C# 3.0 support and added
new features to early. But all in all I must say that I love the new
analysis features too And the much improved xml support is the basis
for my NHibernate plugin (see http://www.lieser-online.de/blog/?p=80).

So JetBrainers: go on, I think you are on the right track!

Regards,
Stefan Lieser
--
http://www.lieser-online.de

Ivar Syvertsen schrieb:

I'm sorry to say it but i have to agree
I have used R# many years now, but i think the 4.0 is way to slow and to late VS 2008 come before christmas for MSDN users.

I need refactoring , C# 3.0 support and SPEED nothing else.

Jetbrains has been quiet since the first version, almost all nightly build is worse that the previous one.

Ok folks tell Jetbrains what you feel :(

Ivar Syvertsen

Hello Philippe and others,

Making highly professional tools is a tricky business. Being a professional
tool, ReSharper cannot simply be a support for the new language syntax nicely
wrapped in a major release box. Most ReSharper customers expect the highest
level of insight from its features: not only syntax highlighting and navigation,
but smartness of smart completion, comprehensive results in search, reliable
refactorings, a quickfix for every error and a lightbulb everywhere one might
want it. If you take a closer look to ReSharper 4.0 release, you will not
see excessive features; the only critical path for ReSharper 4.0 has always
been C# 3.0 support and by support I mean letting professional developers
be as productive in the new language environment as they can.
C# 3.0 is a remarkable milestone in the history of development of the language.
For many developers it marks a paradigm shift way more significant than C#
2.0 release was. Lambdas and LINQ alone have dramatically changed the way
code gets written for ReSharper team as well as for thousands of developers
worldwide. And one needs to go a long way to make a tool that really follows
along the flow of thought of developers using the new features at their full
potential. Even more, a good tool must help those developers who only try
their wings with the new language; encourage them to use the best practices
and to get profecient with it as soon as possible. And that's exactly what
kept us busy all that time.
Of course, we understand that simply having the powers of ReSharper 3.1
plus correct parsing of C# 3.0 construct is a huge booster by itself. That's
why we were very careful about making changes to the codebase so that our
public nighly builds are as stable as possible. And many of you (search the
blogsphere) have confirmed that ReSharper 4.0 pre-release program was the
most stable ever. I admit that recently there has been a drop in quality
due to some changes in the architecture we couldn't lay off more; but these
changes will pay off with stability improvement of the release build. Moreover,
we have almost adapted our codebase to these changes and I personally enjoy
our recent builds as very stable and responsive.
We're really deep into stabilization right now. Over the last month we
have fixed over 700 issues and are getting close to releasing a public beta.
I stay convinced that our customers value comprehensive feature set over
hacked parsing and will enjoy upcoming ReSharper nighly builds, beta and
release as the tools that matter.


WBR,
Oleg Stepanov
Senior Whiteboard Operator
JetBrains, Inc.
"Develop with pleasure!"
mailto:oleg.stepanov@jetbrains.com

I understand that we can't expect production quality from these
pre-EAP builds, but that's not really the issue.

The biggest problem IMHO is that Jetbrains wants to make 4.0 a
feature-release, while the majority of the existing users are not
waiting for that. They just want C# 3.0 support. I do understand that
Jetbrains wants to keep the cash coming in, but I think they
underestimate the potential revenue of people upgrading "just to have
C# 3.0 support". The way things are going now, they are taking the
wrong path, and I am not talking about the pre-EAP builds. People who
don't install these 4.0 nightly builds are STILL waiting for a version
that will support VS2008. There isn't even a time frame for the
release.

I strongly believe that the reason for the ridiculous delays is that
Jetbrains got feature-crazy. Nobody wants new features. Everyone wants
C# 3.0 support...

Regarding Oleg's comment:

Lambdas and LINQ alone have dramatically changed the way code gets written for ReSharper team as well as for thousands of developers worldwide.

#C 3.0 hasn't changed anything about the way I code because I can't code in #C 3.0 without ReSharper.

For how many other people is this true? I am so dependent on R# that waiting for R# 4.0 is holding me back. I am eager to plunk my money down for a stable release.

Hi flip,

I would recommend to use one of the 4.0 nightly builds! They are mostly
stable (I use build 780 for some days now without problems on two
productive systems).

Regards,
Stefan Lieser
--
http://www.lieser-online.de


flipdoubt schrieb:

Regarding Oleg's comment:

Lambdas and LINQ alone have dramatically changed the way code gets written for ReSharper team as well as for thousands of developers worldwide.

#C 3.0 hasn't changed anything about the way I code because I can't code in #C 3.0 without ReSharper.

For how many other people is this true? I am so dependent on R# that waiting for R# 4.0 is holding me back. I am eager to plunk my money down for a stable release.

Hello flipdoubt,

As I mentioned in my message, we had a stability drop in some of the recent
builds, but newer builds (782+) should be fine to use.

WBR,
Oleg Stepanov
Senior Whiteboard Operator
JetBrains, Inc.
"Develop with pleasure!"
mailto:oleg.stepanov@jetbrains.com

Regarding Oleg's comment:

+Lambdas and LINQ alone have dramatically changed the way code gets
written for ReSharper team as well as for thousands of developers
worldwide.+

#C 3.0 hasn't changed anything about the way I code because I can't
code in #C 3.0 without ReSharper.

For how many other people is this true? I am so dependent on R# that
waiting for R# 4.0 is holding me back. I am eager to plunk my money
down for a stable release.

I've been continuously impressed with the improved intelligence found in the
R# 4.0 builds. I for one am glad the R# team has focused on making the next
release a significant one with regards to refactoring and quickfix
capabilities, rather than just slapping C# 3.0 support on the v3.1 codebase.
Naturally, there are some stability issues, but JetBrains has clearly stated
from the start that this is a PRE-EAP release (not even a regular EAP
release), and that such issues are to be expected. I for one am grateful to
get the chance to use R# at this stage of development and to help shape the
final product through real-world feedback. I remain extremely optimistic
that R# 4.0 will be the greatest .NET developers' tool next to Visual Studio
itself. Keep up the fantastic work, guys. You're heroes to many of us :).

Best regards,
Mike Strobel

"Oleg Stepanov" <oleg.stepanov@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:f94546f615d78ca74f9aa9cd363@news.intellij.net...

Hello Philippe and others,

>

Making highly professional tools is a tricky business. Being a
professional tool, ReSharper cannot simply be a support for the new
language syntax nicely wrapped in a major release box. Most ReSharper
customers expect the highest level of insight from its features: not only
syntax highlighting and navigation, but smartness of smart completion,
comprehensive results in search, reliable refactorings, a quickfix for
every error and a lightbulb everywhere one might want it. If you take a
closer look to ReSharper 4.0 release, you will not see excessive features;
the only critical path for ReSharper 4.0 has always been C# 3.0 support
and by support I mean letting professional developers be as productive in
the new language environment as they can.
C# 3.0 is a remarkable milestone in the history of development of the
language. For many developers it marks a paradigm shift way more
significant than C# 2.0 release was. Lambdas and LINQ alone have
dramatically changed the way code gets written for ReSharper team as well
as for thousands of developers worldwide. And one needs to go a long way
to make a tool that really follows along the flow of thought of developers
using the new features at their full potential. Even more, a good tool
must help those developers who only try their wings with the new language;
encourage them to use the best practices and to get profecient with it as
soon as possible. And that's exactly what kept us busy all that time. Of
course, we understand that simply having the powers of ReSharper 3.1 plus
correct parsing of C# 3.0 construct is a huge booster by itself. That's
why we were very careful about making changes to the codebase so that our
public nighly builds are as stable as possible. And many of you (search
the blogsphere) have confirmed that ReSharper 4.0 pre-release program was
the most stable ever. I admit that recently there has been a drop in
quality due to some changes in the architecture we couldn't lay off more;
but these changes will pay off with stability improvement of the release
build. Moreover, we have almost adapted our codebase to these changes and
I personally enjoy our recent builds as very stable and responsive.
We're really deep into stabilization right now. Over the last month we
have fixed over 700 issues and are getting close to releasing a public
beta. I stay convinced that our customers value comprehensive feature set
over hacked parsing and will enjoy upcoming ReSharper nighly builds, beta
and release as the tools that matter.

>
>

WBR,
Oleg Stepanov
Senior Whiteboard Operator
JetBrains, Inc.
"Develop with pleasure!"
mailto:oleg.stepanov@jetbrains.com

>
>> I understand that we can't expect production quality from these
>> pre-EAP builds, but that's not really the issue.
>>
>> The biggest problem IMHO is that Jetbrains wants to make 4.0 a
>> feature-release, while the majority of the existing users are not
>> waiting for that. They just want C# 3.0 support. I do understand that
>> Jetbrains wants to keep the cash coming in, but I think they
>> underestimate the potential revenue of people upgrading "just to have
>> C# 3.0 support". The way things are going now, they are taking the
>> wrong path, and I am not talking about the pre-EAP builds. People who
>> don't install these 4.0 nightly builds are STILL waiting for a version
>> that will support VS2008. There isn't even a time frame for the
>> release.
>>
>> I strongly believe that the reason for the ridiculous delays is that
>> Jetbrains got feature-crazy. Nobody wants new features. Everyone wants
>> C# 3.0 support...
>>
>