8 comments

Hello Gustavo,

At the moment we're not planning to support LightSwitch in the nearest future.
Thank you!

Andrey Serebryansky
Senior Support Engineer
JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"

In this thread (/message/5315898#5315898) it is apparent there was no
support for LightSwitch as of Aug/10. Is still the case? What is the
plan?

Thanks!

---
Original message URL:
http://devnet.jetbrains.net/message/5318047#5318047



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Hi Andrey,
Thanks for your reply. I would like to ask JetBrains to revisit this issue and consider working on it sooner. I know many Resharper users will be surprised when working on LightSwitch applications and realize it does not work at all. I am a big Resharper fan, but most of all, I need a productivity tool to adopt in my company. I asked CodeRush about their support to LightSwitch and this was their response:

"It looks like there are some issues with reading LigthSwitch project information and not all CodeRush features are available and work well. However, I see that visual features (structural highlighting, member icons), templates and member-level refactorings (Introduce Local, Inline Temp) are working well. You can install a trial CodeRush version on your machine and check this if necessary features are available. We are going to improve LightSwitch support before the next release."

Much more promising than JetBrains' response... Please reconsider working on this.

Thank you

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I would like to add my support this request. Lightswitch is hot property right now, and it's only going to grow and grow. If R# isn't going to support it, you are going to have a lot of unhappy customers - me included. I don't want to switch tools, but if you are going to support Lightswitch and other people are, then I would have to consider it. I can see a major part of my future development work involving Lightswitch.

Please explain the rationale behind the decision not to support a mainstream Microsoft product that works hand-in-hand with Visual Studio, and one that is being taken up by developers worldwide at a very rapid pace.

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Well, we didn't say we are not going to support LightSwitch. And there is
not much evidence if it is "only going to grow and grow" :)

Anyway, as any new technology, it needs some time to mature and get everyone's
understanding of what is needed to support it. We are experimenting with
its project and code models, and everything is a bit complicated right now.
There are several folders with code generated by MSBuild tasks, which are
not made visible through VS APIs. There are nested projects with additional
services running depending (surprise!) on the name of the project.

Supporting Lightswitch is not about flipping a bit in a supported technologies
flags. Right now we can not say anything specific about the dates, level
of support and general strategy we have about LightSwitch. But we are sure
looking into it, preparing to support it on technological side, and watching
its progress on the market. Thanks for your opinion, it sure matters!

Sincerely,
Ilya Ryzhenkov

JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


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If you want evidence that it's going to grow, take a look at all the component vendors who are racing to release Lightswitch-related products. Take a look how activity in the Lightswitch forums has grown since the beta. Take a look at how many blogs and web sites have sprung up supporting Lightswitch. There's plenty of evidence if you want it. Take a look at the books being produced on the subject. It's been a long time since I've seen such interest in a new Microsoft product, and they are pushing it hard. It's not going anywhere except upwards.

As for how you would support it, I don't think anyone is expecting you to flip a switch and have amazing new features all over the IDE, but given that you already have first-class tools for code writing, why can't these be applied to .cs and .vb files in Lightswitch? Even if that's as far as your initial efforts for Lightswitch went, it would be a huge benefit to Lightswitch developers. Most of the effort that goes into these apps is currently in code files anyway.

I agree that supporting other file types and scenarios wouldn't be straightforward, but then the need isn't as great there. However, there is a pressing need for support in .cs and .vb code files, and I can't see why you aren't working on that. It's hardly a radical departure form what you already have, and it would supply 90% of the requirements right off. Over time you can see if you consider the growth of interest in Lightswitch to be worthy of further development. It would also help persuade your customers that you are interested in supporting them, instead of hanging around waiting to see what happens, whilst everyone else scrambles to produce Lightswitch-related products.

At the end of the day, it's your decision, but I know that there are plenty of developers like me who are looking closely at who is supporting Lightswitch and who isn't. If R# isn't going to support it, then we'll be looking elsewhere. What else do you expect us to do? You've given us code productivity, and we don't want to lose that. If you won't provide it, we'll have to see who does.

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Hi Ilya,
Thanks for your reply. Just to be clear, Andrey's response was "we're not planning to support LightSwitch in the nearest future", so if you are not planning, I could only interpret that JetBrains is not putting any effort whatsoever on LightSwitch.

I understand your reasoning - LS is not a simple product to support to support because of all the "magic" they use to make a consistent experience in Visual Studio across multiple files.
I also understand JetBrains's position if Microsoft's pitch for LightSwitch is taken as face value. In my opinion Microsoft is doing a poor job in positioning LightSwitch to professional devs. Their story is: this product is primarily for non-pro devs, such as business people, MS Access hackers, etc, and if pro devs want to use it, there's plenty of flexibility, but it's not for them. Of course these users do not understand the benefits Resharper offers, and are not Resharper users. But the reality is that LightSwitch is NOT for these people Microsoft is trying to target.
In my opinion, Pro Devs will embrace LightSwitch, especially when Windows 8 comes out, as I believe LightSwitch will target native Windows 8 applications with Html5/JScript.

Although I agree with Yossu that incremental support would be much appreciated, I understand the problems that come with this - classes not visible from other projects will make R# crazy, as well as the inability to detect dead code, etc (although this is the same as RIA Services).

Apart from my own interest in using Resharper with LightSwitch, I believe it is strategically advantageous for JetBrains to seriouly work on it asap. I appreciate your efforts in looking into this.

Thanks
- Gustavo

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More precise statement would be "we are not planning to make any public statements
about LightSwitch support in any near future". We do research, we look into
details, but it is hard to even estimate effort required, not to say anything
about "when".

As for incremental support, I have experimental code understanding LightSwitch
project, but it's all red code. And to make it useful, we need to make it
green :) 

Also, we'll see what they'll uncover on Build/Windows today. May be we'll
have to change some plans. I think we will have more information some time
after the Build/Windows event.

Sincerely,
Ilya Ryzhenkov

JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


IR> Hi Ilya,
IR> Thanks for your reply. Just to be clear, Andrey's response was
IR> "we're not planning to support LightSwitch in the nearest future",
IR> so if you are not planning, I can only interpret that JetBrains is
IR> not putting any effort whatsoever on LightSwitch.
IR> I understand your reasoning - LS is not a simple product to support
IR> to support because of all the "magic" they use to make a consistent
IR> experience in Visual Studio across multiple files.
IR>
IR> I also understand JetBrains's position if Microsoft's pitch for
IR> LightSwitch is taken as face value. In my opinion Microsoft is doing
IR> a poor job in positioning LightSwitch to professional devs. Their
IR> story is: this product is primarily for non-pro devs, such as
IR> business people, MS Access hackers, etc, and if pro devs want to use
IR> it, there's plenty of flexibility, but it's not for them. Of course
IR> these users do not understand the benefits Resharper offers, and are
IR> not Resharper users. But the reality is that LightSwitch is NOT for
IR> these people Microsoft is trying to target.
IR>
IR> In my opinion, Pro Devs will embrace LightSwitch, especially when
IR> Windows 8 comes out, as I believe LightSwitch will target native
IR> Windows 8 applications with Html5/JScript.
IR>
IR> Although I agree with Yossu that incremental support would be much
IR> appreciated, I understand the problems that come with this - classes
IR> not visible from other projects will make R# crazy, as well as the
IR> inability to detect dead code, etc (although this is the same as RIA
IR> Services).
IR>
IR> Apart from my own interest in using Resharper with LightSwitch, I
IR> believe it is strategically advantageous for JetBrains to seriouly
IR> work on it asap. I appreciate your efforts in looking into this.
IR>
IR> Thanks
IR> - Gustavo
IR> ---
IR> Original message URL:
IR> http://devnet.jetbrains.net/message/5319117#5319117


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Just to add on for anyone interested in looking to help persuade JetBrains on this one, they have set up an issue for this here, please go and vote and add your comments. You can log in with the same info as you use here.

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