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"Peter Kellner" <no_reply@jetbrains.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:22971261.1195593310292.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...

any info on vs2008 RTM for resharper?


Works here.

Using the latest nightly builds.

http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/ReSharper/Nightly+Builds

Regards

Albert

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Albert, you are saying it works using the latest EAP, right? I'm interested in announcements about an official release of Resharper that supports the latest VS.NET.

I've been away from the forums for a while, with my head face-down in VS.NET and Resharper, so I haven't heard any of the discussions. Where should I look for announcements?

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"flipdoubt" <no_reply@jetbrains.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1306166.1195657537866.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...

Albert, you are saying it works using the latest EAP, right? I'm
interested in announcements about an official release of Resharper that
supports the latest VS.NET.


No, i'm using the latest nightly build. mostly i will way one or two EAP
Version and then switchung to nightly builds.

I've been away from the forums for a while, with my head face-down in
VS.NET and Resharper, so I haven't heard any of the discussions. Where
should I look for announcements?


An EAP VS2008 Version is since Beta 2 of VS2008. Downloads on the EAP and
Nightly Builders offers an Version for VS 8.0 and VS 9.0. Announcement for
the 3.0.3 has been made in September and October (in .eap.announcements).

I think an offical announcement for VS2008 will be made for next release
version. With a "warning" like R# 3.x runs on VS2008 but don't support C#
3.0 and VB 9.0. Also i think this will happen for 3.1 (3.0.3).

But i'm not JetBrains.

Regards

Albert

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Thanks for your reply, Albert. Still, you made no mention of when. I'm downloading VS 2008 as we speak, but it sounds like I don't know when I will be able to use Resharper with it.

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"flipdoubt" <no_reply@jetbrains.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:26855731.1195660511518.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...

Thanks for your reply, Albert. Still, you made no mention of when. I'm
downloading VS 2008 as we speak, but it sounds like I don't know when I
will be able to use Resharper with it.


??? Download the latest nightly build for VS9.0 (2008)

http://www.jetbrains.net/confluence/display/ReSharper/Nightly+Builds

And it will work, now!

Regards

Albert

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Hello,

Thanks for your reply, Albert. Still, you made no mention of when. I'm
downloading VS 2008 as we speak, but it sounds like I don't know when
I will be able to use Resharper with it.


R# 3.x bits are already available for the new VS, all the current and following
nightly/EAP builds have six installers in total, the Full/C#/VB choice multiplied
by the VS 8/9 choice.

It is possible to install R# for both versions of VS simultaneously, but
they must be of the same version.

R# 3.x under VS 9 does not support the new language features, like C# 3.0.
Support for C# 3.0 is being currently implemented in R# 4.0 (moreover, R#
itself has been in C# 3.0 for some time already). The first public builds
of R# 4.0 are expected to appear in the beginning of the next year, supposedly
before VS 9 is officially released.


Serge Baltic
JetBrains, Inc — http://www.jetbrains.com
“Develop with pleasure!”


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The rumours I've heard is that R# 4 is due sometime Q1 08. Given that I'm about to purchase R# for the first time should I be waiting for V4? If I buy now will I get hit for another licence fee in a couple of months time to get the C#3.0 functionality?

Cheers,
Adie.

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"codex897" <no_reply@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:21481504.1195742932129.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...

The rumours I've heard is that R# 4 is due sometime Q1 08. Given that I'm
about to purchase R# for the first time should I be waiting for V4? If I
buy now will I get hit for another licence fee in a couple of months time
to get the C#3.0 functionality?


I second this request. Given that VS2008 is released, the least JB can do is
make their minds up about upgrade policy. I need to use VS2008 right now.
Why should anyone buy/upgrade to V3 now if V4 is just a few months off?
Answer please!

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Hello Rick,

It seems to me there are two parts in the topic.

First, current state of ReSharper in regards of VS2008 I tried to address
in my post here: http://resharper.blogspot.com/2007/11/resharper-and-visual-studio-2008.html

Second, why do you need to use C# 3.0 right now? It is not mature enough,
it is not tested in industry, pitfalls and glitches are not known yet, there
are plenty of scepticism out there on the web and nobody really knows how
to work with it. Well, there are some marketing and other "it's so cool"
stuff on the web, but do you believe that LINQ or extension methods will
do their job better than existing solutions like ActiveRecord (http://www.castleproject.org/activerecord/index.html)
and other alternative, non-microsoft tools? We really want to know this,
honestly. There is so much buzz about how cool "var" keyword or automatic
properties are, but with ReSharper you almost don't need them :)
So, could you please tell us, why do you need to use VS2008 with C# 3.0 right
now?

Sincerely,
Ilya Ryzhenkov

JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


R> "codex897" <no_reply@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
R> news:21481504.1195742932129.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...
R>
>> The rumours I've heard is that R# 4 is due sometime Q1 08. Given that
>> I'm about to purchase R# for the first time should I be waiting for
>> V4? If I buy now will I get hit for another licence fee in a couple
>> of months time to get the C#3.0 functionality?
>>
R> I second this request. Given that VS2008 is released, the least JB
R> can do is make their minds up about upgrade policy. I need to use
R> VS2008 right now. Why should anyone buy/upgrade to V3 now if V4 is
R> just a few months off? Answer please!
R>


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Hello Ilya,

So, could you please tell us, why do you need to use VS2008 with C#
3.0 right now?


It's not 'var' and automatic properties. It's because lambda expressions
and LINQ give me new expressiveness in C# that we did not have before.
And LINQ is not only for database access but very usefull on in memory data.

Sincerely,
Stefan Lieser

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Second, why do you need to use C# 3.0 right now? It
is not mature enough,
it is not tested in industry, pitfalls and glitches
are not known yet, there
are plenty of scepticism out there on the web and
nobody really knows how
to work with it. Well, there are some marketing and
other "it's so cool"
stuff on the web, but do you believe that LINQ or
extension methods will
do their job better than existing solutions like
ActiveRecord
(http://www.castleproject.org/activerecord/index.html)

and other alternative, non-microsoft tools? We really
want to know this,
honestly.


It's alot easier to get management approval of a tool / technology that comes from Microsoft (and something the company is going to naturally progress to) than some 3rd party persistence engine (believe me, I'm currently trying to push for LLBLGen Pro, or NHibernate, etc and I know we're going to have an easier time convincing them to let us use Linq to SQL (and eventually Linq to Entities) than some 3rd party library.

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"Ilya Ryzhenkov" <orangy@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:76a2bd0b1497ba8c9fd133e589dca@news.intellij.net...

So, could you please tell us, why do you need to use VS2008 with C# 3.0
right now?


I've been told by my employer to use VS2008 and C# 3.0. Logic and scepticism
don't feature in this argument. :)

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Hi Ilya,

I started using the new C# 3.0 language features in my projects after .NET v3.5 Beta 2 was released. At that time, I felt it was reasonable to assume I would not encounter any breaking changes when 3.5 went RTM (which turned out to be true). Personally, I find the functional language extensions (lambdas and expression trees) to be the most compelling feature. Combined with LINQ, I can now perform complex algorithms on collections using much less code than was previously possible in C# 2.0. Not only does this save me time, but it results in cleaner, more readable code that requires less documentation. Data access aside, C# 3.0 provides me with far too many useful features that I am unwilling to sacrifice. I am also unwilling to give up the many great features of R#. This leaves me in an unfortunate situation where I am forced to run R# with the default VS IntelliSense provider and a very confused code analysis engine. Despite my overall satisfaction with R# (I recommend it to everyone), I am both surprised and disappointed that there is not yet an EAP release that supports C# 3.0. Like it or not, C# 3.0 is now mainstream, and there's enough evangelism out there that the adoption rate will likely be much quicker than it was with C# 2.0. That's a good thing in my book, as I strongly believe the new language has a lot to offer.

Make no mistake, there are plenty of us out here just dying to get our hands on an R# release with C# 3.0 support, and I'd rather have buggy support than no support, so perhaps you ought to consider releasing an EAP (or pre-EAP) sooner rather than later :).

Best regards,
Mike Strobel

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Mike has put very well just about everything I could say about the need for JetBrains to be quick in delivering a VS 2008 -friendly (even if not fully enhanced) version of R#, with the exception of one comment that does (IMHO) need to be added:

While I still feel that R# is the more capable and reliable of the two products, it is worth noting that R#'s primary competitor has had VS 2008 support for quite some time now. While we here on this forum might know R# to be the better product, the unwashed masses are soon going to be pointing out the fact that JetBrains is late with a VS 2008 product, and there will surely be some lost sales and perhaps even more than a few defections. How long are you (the forum member) going to be willing to forego one of R# or VS 2008?

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I really like R#, but statements like this,

"Second, why do you need to use C# 3.0 right now? It is not mature enough,
it is not tested in industry, pitfalls and glitches are not known yet, there
are plenty of scepticism out there on the web and nobody really knows how
to work with it."

Make me lose respect for a company like Jetbrains. People ask if your product is going to work with the latest .NET dev tools and instead of providing a meaningful answer, you ask them why they need those tools anyway? Who are you to decide if a product is mature enough or if I need to be using it? The only scepticism[sic] I see is here.

Bad form man, bad form... you don't need to be talking to customers if those are the attitudes you're going to convey.

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I second Nathan's post.

If a customer says they need feature X, it is not the provider's job to say that they don't. Some people in this world may disagree, but I will note that I do not use basecamp, and I have never paid 37 signals a cent, because it doesn't support the features I need. Telling me I don't need them has not solved my problem.

I have used .Net 3.5 since the first betas, and I can tell from at least six months of solid experience including in production environments, it is as solid as it needs to be. Microsoft is a very solid software company, and I would personally much rather use a software framework supported by Microsoft directly, than by some hack programmer who has been reading a bit too much from 37 signals' blogs. LINQ is elegant, simple, and effective. But most importantly, it is supported by the IDE. This is why we use C#, because the IDE is so awesome (C# without Visual Studio would simply be a marginally better Java). I would think any company making a product for this arena would understand and appreciate this.

I regularly use Ruby on Rails. And I hate it for two reasons. First is that there is no IDE (Aptana may be nice, but it is a far cry from VS) and no compiler. Second, and more importantly, is that while I believe that conventions are important for code readability, I do not believe the should be part of the language or the function of the software. I am free to rename my classes with Visual Studio's reactor tool all day long, and everything will still work perfectly. This is essential, especially as programs grow larger. Programming patterns like Active Record based on convention over configuration will eventually cause program extension to become extremely difficult as the software becomes larger and the older, now different, classes mesh with newer ones. While programming with configuration over convention can be more work, it is a job that can easily be done by an IDE, and extended by things like R#, which are supposed to support standard patterns, not enforce new ones. There are other non active record ORM components, however, they are mostly not free (by a lot) or not completely developed (usually as a result of being open-source). LINQ is free and complete, but also has the advantage of integrating nicely with the C# language, making it more elegant than any other pattern, and, of course, it is supported nicely by the IDE.

I get to decide which tools I develop with, and right now, with this sort of company attitude, R# is not one of them, and probably won't be for some time.

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"Nathan" <no_reply@jetbrains.com> wrote in message
news:24812824.1196373645127.JavaMail.itn@is.intellij.net...
>I really like R#, but statements like this,
>

"Second, why do you need to use C# 3.0 right now? It is not mature enough,
it is not tested in industry, pitfalls and glitches are not known yet,
there
are plenty of scepticism out there on the web and nobody really knows how
to work with it."

>

Make me lose respect for a company like Jetbrains. People ask if your
product is going to work with the latest .NET dev tools and instead of
providing a meaningful answer, you ask them why they need those tools
anyway? Who are you to decide if a product is mature enough or if I
need to be using it? The only scepticism[sic] I see is here.

>

Bad form man, bad form... you don't need to be talking to customers if
those are the attitudes you're going to convey.


Indeed. A little paraphrasing might give us...

"why do you need to use R# 3.0 right now? It is not mature enough, it is not
tested in industry, pitfalls and glitches are not known yet, there are
plenty of scepticism out there on the web and nobody really knows how to
work with it."

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Hello Nathan,

My apologise, I didn't mean to abuse anyone. I just expressed my own opinion,
it is community newsgroup after all :) May be I was too much expressive...

Anyway, I'm really interested in the reasons people are so anxious about
VS2008 and C# 3.0. And more than that, I'm interested why people need it
now! It was out there for a while, in a CTP, then Beta. Release in not
something that significantly changes products like VS2008 or .NET 3.5.

For me, I have to use VS2008 and C# 3.0, so that ReSharper 4 will be good
in terms of usability, feature set and language support. If I were developing
business application, I'd wait several months while constantly monitoring
the web to understand the problems I may have when I upgrade. That's how
I would treat VS2008 release if I were on different project. On the other
hand, if I were on the hobby-project or something research-like, I'd be using
Orcas since any time it was usable to write code and do not crash too often.
For me, "RTM" mark doesn't change much.

Sincerely,
Ilya Ryzhenkov

JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


IR> I really like R#, but statements like this,
IR>
IR> "Second, why do you need to use C# 3.0 right now? It is not mature
IR> enough, it is not tested in industry, pitfalls and glitches are not
IR> known yet, there are plenty of scepticism out there on the web and
IR> nobody really knows how to work with it."
IR>
IR> Make me lose respect for a company like Jetbrains. People ask if
IR> your product is going to work with the latest .NET dev tools and
IR> instead of providing a meaningful answer, you ask them why they need
IR> those tools anyway? Who are you to decide if a product is mature
IR> enough or if I need to be using it? The only scepticism[sic] I
IR> see is here.
IR>
IR> Bad form man, bad form... you don't need to be talking to customers
IR> if those are the attitudes you're going to convey.
IR>


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Thanks for everyone's feedback on this. I've found it most interesting (and quite entertaining :)).

So, is it safe to install the latest resharper (that's called r#?) on my vs2008 64bit computer? Are there any reports of it running smoothly with the latest release?

Thanks,

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Hello Peter,

There are problems reported with ReSharper 3, Visual Studio 2008 and x64
Windows. Those problems don't happen for every user, sometimes it runs just
fine. Sometimes, though, it crashes when you open Find Dialog (VS's one).
The problem is said to be with specific windows hooks, which we use in ReSharper.
It looks more like bug in Visual Studio, but since it is unlikely that we
can see hotfix any time soon, we are thinking of how we can fix it on our
end.

Note, that other programs which uses same hooks will cause same crashes of
VS2008. On the other hand, they didn't delay the release... ;)

Sincerely,
Ilya Ryzhenkov

JetBrains, Inc
http://www.jetbrains.com
"Develop with pleasure!"


IR> Thanks for everyone's feedback on this. I've found it most
IR> interesting (and quite entertaining :)).
IR>
IR> So, is it safe to install the latest resharper (that's called r#?)
IR> on my vs2008 64bit computer? Are there any reports of it running
IR> smoothly with the latest release?
IR>
IR> Thanks,
IR>


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Just as a quick point of feedback as to where the "now" is coming from, at least within my environment, it is that after watching so many people respond so well to beta 2 and its go-live license, but while playing it safe and waiting for RTM, those to whom we (and by we I mean dev leads like myself as well as our architect) have been talking about the upcoming features and benefits of 3.5/2008 have said "looks good, start planning the upgrade for the new year". On the other hand, had beta 2 and its go-live license not gone as well as it seems to have, we'd almost surely be waiting for SP1. To make a long story short, "now" is simply coming from the benefits we see in a move together with the perceived quality of the release. Telling us that you don't have reason to move doesn't change our needs. :)

PS - in case it isn't clear: we still love you guys. We'll just love you a little more when R# 4 is out. :D

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Here, here. R# is still my #1 development tool (aside from VS itself, without which R# is pretty worthless ;)), and I still have a great deal of esteem for its developers. But my normally high level of enthusiasm for the product diminishes while I can no longer use it to its full potential.

On another note, I would point out that it is quite difficult to convince the CIO to give us the go-ahead to convert all of our projects and automated builds to a new version of Visual Studio while it is still in beta. Now that the RTM is available, we will begin moving all of our solutions from VS2005 to VS2008. We will not begin targeting .NET v3.5 until Microsoft starts pushing it out to the masses via Windows Update, but in the meantime we still have the new C# 3.0 compiler, and developers like myself are anxious to start using it to its full potential. R# saps much of the joy out of this exercise, as using R# 3.x with C# 3.0 is much like driving a Porsche with a constantly flashing instrument panel and a satellite radio tuner that only receives Reggae and Weather stations.

Please, oh please throw us a bone here.

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Hello Adie,

I think that you might want to contact sales (sales@jetbrains.com) with this
question. They really know best about this area.

The rumours I've heard is that R# 4 is due sometime Q1 08. Given that
I'm about to purchase R# for the first time should I be waiting for
V4? If I buy now will I get hit for another licence fee in a couple of
months time to get the C#3.0 functionality?

Cheers,
Adie.

Best regards,
Andrey Simanovsky


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Thanks Andrey.

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